Bass guitar...

[brewerpaul]

I've wanted a bass for a long time, although I'm not really sure why. Mostly to noodle with, but I might be able to play it in the band I joined recently (sort of Irish Rovers type of band).
I borrowed my son's full size bass but found the stretch too big, especially since I play a lot of mandolin.
I've been reading about short scale basses and think that this is the way I should go. Anyone have any recommendations on those? Thanks.

[Tim Hall]

For a beater bass, the "SX" instruments by Rondo (rondomusic.com) have a good reputation. I have two, a four-string Jazz bass copy and a five-string fretless with a high C, and like them both. Disclaimer - I have not seen or tried their short scale instruments. You might look on the talkbass.com forums - many, many pages there on SX basses, modding, etc.

Best,

Tim

[MTGuru]

I borrowed my son's full size bass but found the stretch too big, especially since I play a lot of mandolin.

I suspect you're thinking about the scale and fingering the wrong way, unless you're going for Jimmy Haslip or Jaco Pastorius.

Bass doesn't have to be like closed fingering on guitar, 1 finger per fret. Or open fingering on mando or fiddle. Most of the typical bass patterns are within 2 or 3 frets, and can be easily slid or "hopped" up and down as needed. This means they can be covered easily by 2 non-adjacent fingers - e.g. 1 and 3, or 2 and 4 - even at the bottom of the neck. Any adult hand should be able to handle it.

The girl who played bass with our band had smallish hands, and managed a standard long scale instrument with ease.

Given this technique, the difference between long and short scale fret distance is really trivial - around 1/4 inch at the 1st fret, and increasingly smaller as you go up the neck.

But what you get in return with short scale is:

o It's much harder to find a good choice of instruments. Long scale is by far more common.

o It's much harder to find strings. Everyone carries long scale sets in lots of varieties - round, half-round, flat, etc.

o The sound tends to be "plinkier" or "thuddier". Long scale does a much better job of approaching the deep, rich sound of an acoustic bass.

Short scale is a bad trade-off, IMO.

I've been playing the same $250 Fender Squier long scale P-bass for 20 years now, and it's been a great instrument. I'd recommend the J-bass for most, though, because of the closer string spacing. Most typical inexpensive basses use J-bass spacing.

And don't forget about a good amp, or at least a nice clean direct (DI) box for going directly to a mixing board. That's at least half your sound.

Good luck!

[Tim2723]

Hi Paul,

I, too, am part of a Rovers-type group, and we also use bass from time to time.

The only thing I can add to MT's advice is that good short scale basses are not only harder to find, but a good, affordable short scale is nearly impossible to get. The strings too are fewer in choice and more expensive, which means that they tend to get changed infrequently. That causes all the same tuning and intonation problems it does with a mandolin.

The discomfort you notice going from mandolin to bass is normal. You're moving to extremes. Try slinging your bass lower. The bottom edge of the body may have to be almost to your knee to avoid streching your arm out too far, which makes the hand uncomfortable.

Owning a quality DI box is good advice for anyone amplifying anything, but count on getting a good amp first. The amp is at least half the sound and expense. Unless your band is using a very sophisticated PA with sub-woofers and active crossovers, the bass will likely deteriorate the total sound through a simple PA. The primary task of a PA is to amplify the voice. Acoustic groups do well with sending their instruments through them as a mix, but bass is a different creature. The majority of performing bands put their bass out through a seperate amp. You'll likely want a decent practice amp as well, since a performance amp is way too loud even turned down.

As to what bass to get, I agree whole-heartedly with MT. The Fender Precision Bass, Jazz bass, and their affordable clones are probably the most versatile instruments out there. They have a wide tonal pallet and can be adapted to almost every form of music. Even the inexpensive Squire and Samick copies will serve you for years, especially if it's not your primary instrument. The one thing I'll go out on a limb and NOT recommend is the acoustic bass guitar (they look like four-string folk guitars). These are just too notorious for having serious mechanical problems, especially the lower cost versions. Several manufacturers have discountinued their lines because they all came back with problems. My local shop won't even carry these anymore because of the liability.

[MTGuru]

In turn, I agree with Tim's post 100%.

I got my Japanese-made Squier P-bass when the Fender Squier line first appeared around 1984, and remember being astounded at how nice an instrument it was for the price. I see the newer non-Japanese Squiers still get high marks. My only mod was to replace the tailpiece with a genuine, heavier Fender tailpiece for better tone and sustain.

A good amp is a big plus. I use an old 15" Ibanez combo with an effective parametric EQ and compressor, an tap the amp into the house sound. But honestly, for just plinking OT style bass for contradances or some gigs, sometimes the convenience of a DI box outweighs (!) carrying around a 60 lb amp, and is good enough. The onboard tone is effective, or I run it through a compact submixer for EQ. A bass processor like a Line6 pod gives you even more control.

Interesting about the structural problems with the acoustic basses. I didn't know that.

[Tim2723]

In hindsight, my comments about the acoustic-electric basses might be a bit misleading. There are indeed good ones out there. The Martin versions were redesigned and are very good (for about three grand!). But even big names like Ovation, who you would think would have the technology to do it well, had all kinds of problems. The thing to avoid, IMO, are the $200-ish basses. They are the notorious ones. The neck joint of an electric bass is a difficult beast to master. Most electric basses use either bolt-on necks or through-body necks where the wood of the neck extends as a single piece from headstock to tailpiece, the 'body' being attached to the edges of the neck timber. The tailpiece of a solid body instrument is securely bolted to massive wood, rather than being glued to the thin top of a modified acoustic guitar as in the AE basses, where they tend to pull up. Caveat emptor.

[brewerpaul]

An SX short scale Jazz clone is looking like my best bet. For $110, there's not a whole lot to lose.
I went back to the local music store yesterday and played a short scale and also a long scale bass and will still go short. For most "normal" bass playing, Guru is right-- I CAN handle the long scale. However, I find myself wanting to noodle with guitar riffs and solos and moving my whole hand up and down the neck as opposed to just my fingers is too much.
Now I just hafta decide on a color...

[brewerpaul]

I ordered that SX bass and an amazingly short two days later it arrived with standard shipping!
I haven't had a lot of time to play it, but my initial impression is that for a hundred buck bass, it's a helluva deal.
Looks great, plays easily. More to come as I get used to it and tweak some very minor intonation issues.

[Tim2723]

But what color did you get?? (I hope it's green. I like green.)

[brewerpaul]

But what color did you get?? (I hope it's green. I like green.)

No green available. Being in a band called Shenanigans, that might have been my first choice. However, I "settled" for a sunburst. Looks pretty good too.

[MTGuru]

Good choice. My P-bass is a sunburst, too. I wasn't too fond of it at first, being partial to natural wood. But it has grown on me over the years, and actually looks modestly tasteful for any music, including trad.

[Ro3b]

I got my Japanese-made Squier P-bass when the Fender Squier line first appeared around 1984, and remember being astounded at how nice an instrument it was for the price. I see the newer non-Japanese Squiers still get high marks. My only mod was to replace the tailpiece with a genuine, heavier Fender tailpiece for better tone and sustain.

The new Squier "Classic Vibe" line of instruments seem to be a return to Squier's golden age. The quality rivals Fender's American-made instruments; I have a CV Telecaster that's one of the nicest guitars I've owned. The line includes 50s and 60s-style P-basses and a 60s-style J-bass, all going for around $250. If I were shopping for a bass, I'd definitely go for one of those.