geetar pickin the tunes

[PJ]

Dan Crary has recorded a few jigs on a 12-string. That guy's on a different planet completely.

I'm able to play about half a dozen tunes (mostly jigs) on a 12-string tuned to DADGAD. I'll try record a few and post to clips and snips.

[monkey587]

One of the reasons I don't go to pub sessions is that most times, a few players want to be heard above everyone else. For me, a good session is where the musicians are playing together and no one instrument dominates.

Diatribe warning:

This topic is close to home for me because I went through the same thing, and as such I think this diatribe is directed at myself circa 2004 as much as it is at the world at large.

Nobody could hear me play guitar melody in a session, including myself. I tried octave mandolin and had the same problem. Eventually I decided to take up the flute on a lark (can't go wrong with a Tipple flute) and I found that there was a well of tradition I could draw from rather than naively trying to forge my own path to adapt my guitar to the session and vice versa.

What I discovered is that "irish traditional music" is much, much bigger than the individual and it needs to be approached on its own terms... otherwise that individual will probably be forever confined to a relatively isolated experience. If that's your path, then maybe you should try to organize a very small session group who understands your plight and supports your cause, so you will have a "safe" environment in which to function. Like it or not, most of us do not have the ambition and wherewithal to be, for example, the first person who said "I'm going to take this banjo thing and make it work with this music to which it is foreign."

I suppose some stop-gap solutions may include sitting in a corner, or with back to wall would help the guitar project, or perhaps wearing a hat would be the best bet to help hear oneself even if the others can't, if you're not in control of the session situation, as most people are not.

I'm not going to encourage anyone to give up whatever instrument they wish to play, but I think you have to realize that your options will necessarily be limited by having an instrument whose sound, volume, etc are not compatible/complimentary of the other instruments. Otherwise, I assure you that you would have role models to follow and would not need to ask the question that started this thread.

This may come across more harshly than I intend it, and maybe I'm making it out to be more than it was meant to be, but I think it's true. I sincerely hope I didn't upset anyone.

[Screeeech!!!]

I've learned a few tunes in DADGAD but am curious as to the suggestions of using this tuning to play melodies. Is it easier to pick out the melodies in DADGAD?

The way i see it, DADGAD is a diatonic tuning making your guitar more like a whistle, as aposed to EADGAE which is a chromatic tuning making your guitar more like a recorder.

DADGAD gives you much more speed in the left hand as the notes are in a more intuative position.

[PJ]

monkey587 - I'd agree with a lot of what you say.

However, one thing that many people miss is that there is very little tradition in the pub session. The pub session has only existed for 60 or 70 years and, from what I gather, got underway in London in the 1940s. It got popular in Ireland in the 1950s & 60s. Prior to that it was mainly played at home or the Feis.

[Wormdiet]

Amplification could get one shot in certain pubs... bad, bad, bad idea idea altogether. However, I really would like to see what may transpire should anybody do such a thing. I might even have to pop some corn for a snack and settle in with a diet coke to watch what unfolds.

It depends. We have a few folks locally who bring electric pianos and it's been fine.

I will probably NOT be taking my Rickenbacker with my Vox AC 30 anytime soon though.

Mostly cause I don't have an AC30

[monkey587]

monkey587 - I'd agree with a lot of what you say.

However, one thing that many people miss is that there is very little tradition in the pub session. The pub session has only existed for 60 or 70 years and, from what I gather, got underway in London in the 1940s. It got popular in Ireland in the 1950s & 60s. Prior to that it was mainly played at home or the Feis.

That may be so, but the "session scene" has certainly taken on a life of its own, and people are very protective of it and its boundaries (hence the myriad "session etiquette" discussions, websites, books, etc). One could possibly revolutionize the session world by bringing an amp or asking everyone else to be quiet so the guitar can be heard, but I doubt it. Besides, isn't that the same object of complaint as "One of the reasons I don't go to pub sessions is that most times, a few players want to be heard above everyone else."

As for electric pianos... A piano is normally loud, so the amplifier is not there to make up for the fact that a piano is quiet so much as the fact that there'd probably be no piano without it, and piano is pretty much accepted as a accompaniment instrument. Furthermore, with an electric piano, the amplifier allows them to easily be QUIETER than a real piano would be, which is the opposite effect of the guitarist's situation. Everybody wins when the piano can be made quieter

I still think one is better off taking up the banjo, which is can add a lot of lift to a session because it is loud enough that notes can be played at varying volumes, than to try to make the guitar extra loud and (most likely) changing the vibe of the whole session. Besides, who wants to take an amp when travelling, too, just in case there's a good session nearby? and then having to explain that the amp is not meant to be a threat to people who are worried about a stranger bringing unusual equipment to their session.

The banjo's a lot louder than guitar, but the real reason it works is because it doesn't sustain the way a guitar does, so it's only briefly loud with each note and then the other instruments take over. It can propel the rhythm along while still playing melodies. A guitarist with a good ear who can play tunes on guitar well enough to play them at a session can probably get used to the banjo in a matter of days.

Lastly, it always contributes to the session craic, at least as far as witty banter is concerned. Anyway, I think it's a reasonable suggestion. A decent banjo doesn't have to cost more than an amp and I think it will be a more satisfying solution in the long term.

[crookedtune]

monkey587 said........ (can't go wrong with a Tipple flute)........

Well amen to that piece of the diatribe!! Forego your morning Starbuck's coffee for a month, and you can own a real and playable Irish flute by this very inventive guy. Doug's the man!

[Miwokhill]

Screeeech!!!- Thanks for the feedback on using DADGAD for melody...I've mostly learned fingerpicking tunes in that tuning so I'll have to give it a try.

I think that's good point monkey587 was making about the noise level at sessions and there not being much you can do about that. The idea about maybe getting together with a few friends where the guitar can be heard is probably the best idea. (hope that was your point!)

I bought a banjo last year and brainstormed learning how to play it with the help of a Tony Trischka dvd and I love it. This is bluegrass banjo of course but I'll probably get a tenor at some point. ...the banjo seems to get a bad rap but maybe you have to play it to appreciate it...I love that pungent tone it has...it may be easy to make fun of banjos but if you get one and learn to play it you may well think differently.

[bradster]

Miwokhill,
I definitely think DADGAD is easier to play tunes on and sounds a lot nicer too when you hit adjacent strings which will probaly be the root note or fifths or fourths of the root , especially when you use a capo.
I tried standard but for me it didnt sound as lively as you are really only wanting to hit the one string for the one note whereas in DADGAD I do deliberately go for 2 strings a lot of the time, call em diad chords or whatever.
Maybe its personal but I would compare it to a bouziki sound.
Now that I reread this , maybe its not easier , but it just sounds better!
You have the string skipping problem and moving up the frets to get a high a or b for sure.
Also , for songs I think DADGAD is great.
Ok , I love DADGAD and I havent retuned to standard since my latest phase of it , 6 months or so now!

[Miwokhill]

Thanks bradster; now I'm more motivated to try this. --I never would have thought it until I experienced it how much easier it was to play a melody on instruments tuned like the mandolin or fiddle than it is on the guitar. After i got just a little used to it I could pick out a melody on the mandolin and fiddle seemingly as easy as it is to sing the melody. As long as I've played guitar I could never do that with it.

[Darwin]

I haven't played in any real sessions, but I've played in Bluegrass jams with several banjos, several mandolins, and a fiddle or two, and I can be heard pretty well, because I have a Bourgeois Country Boy (mahogany back and sides, adirondack top). I use a .80 mm Clayton pick, beveled and polished, which seems to maximize the higher overtones without being too floppy.

Before I got the Country Boy, I had trouble hearing myself play and tended to play so hard that I would tense up. I rarely have that problem now. The Country Boy is way brighter than my rosewood Martin. I do prefer the tone of the Martin when I'm in a situation where I don't have to compete, but the Country Boy isn't bad, just a little bright.

As far as flatpicking tunes in standard tuning, I don't find it much different from playing Bluegrass fiddle tunes, except that I feel free to improvise when I play Bluegrass. I have one friend who plays mandolin and another who plays hammered dulcimer, and we do a few jigs and hornpipes--and "Trallee Gaol"--in unison.