Help Playing Melodic Ornamentation On Guitar

[JPcares]

There is plenty of instructional material on accompanying Irish tunes on guitar but guitar is great for playing the melody too. For those who disagree listen to John Doyle play a melody, Artie McGlynn, Paul Brady, Dick Gaughan and many others. I can play the basic melodies but want more input on ornamentation. Other than lessons... any suggestions?

[dapolishunicyclist]

How are you playing?
(ie. travis picking, crosspicking, flatpicking etc.)

[JPcares]

Oh I flatpick the melody, though I am primarily a fingerstyle player. I can't get up to session speed with my fingers...

[Darwin]

I can't say anything about what might be appropriate in the way of ornamentation in a session setting, but as far as technique goes, hammer-ons and pull-offs are what I use on fast tunes to keep them rocking along. On slow airs, I also use a few slides. (This is different from my approach to Bluegrass, where I also use bends and sometimes combine slides and bends with hammer-ons and pull-offs. Still, I probably over-ornament on a tune like Tralee Gaol. I know that I can't play my guitar version of that one on the whistle.)

What I expect is that if you keep the "lilt" going and don't play anything that clashes with other melody players, you should be okay. Ask the other players to whap you up 'longside your head if you get too far out there. Since ITM is such a communal kind of music (from what I read here), the community should help you learn what they expect from you.

I don't play ITM with others, but another thing I'd expect is that it's better to play plain repeated notes in cases where there would be a roll or cran on the whistle. Trying to cram a bunch of extra fingering into that kind of situation is liable to just end up being messy and screw up your rhythm. It's generally easier to emulate a cut or a tap, but even in those cases, just picking the individual repeated notes may produce a better-sounding result--especially in a fast tune. My tendency is to use ornamentation where it fits, or is needed, on guitar, rather then trying to put it in where it's needed on the pipes, regardless of what the result sounds like on the guitar.

What do fiddle, mandolin, and banjo players do? Do they all try to copy the pipes the way whistle players do?

[Cynth]

This probably won't help, but this website has instructional essays for playing ITM on the banjo in addition to other topics. There could possibly be something there that might be applicable to your situation. You have to scroll way down the page to get past the sound clips and into the Instructional section.
http://coyotebanjo.com/music.html

There are other quite good essays there.

I want to do everything I can to encourage guitar players to do something besides play loud chords on the guitar . Good luck!

[SteveK]

Here's another page. The ornamentation is presented for bouzouki but I can't see how guitar would be any different.

http://www.greenmanhumming.com/html/zoukornaments/

[JPcares]

SteveK: that would be perfect with sound clips. I think I do need to listen more and slowly and play with some guitar recordings. Oh I wish I had more time and energy...

[Wombat]

JP. what you need is Richard Thompson's tutor with demonstration CDs on Homespun. He uses techniques which some traditionalists might not approve of like bends and finger vibrato but guitar isn't a traditional melody instrument so I don't think there really are any rules to break when playing melody on it. If you look at the received rules for instruments like whistle, they seem to be designed with the usual bunch of melody instruments in mind, so they probably derive from a codification of what can be done on those intruments rather than from some independent rules of good taste.

[Celtic983]

Have you explored dadgad? Or dadf#ad Both work really well when playing melody on celtic tunes. I use my thumb to play alternating drones on the 6 and 5 string and play the melody on the other. You can get so many different sounds out of these tunings. You can make it sound like a bagpipe, or harp ect ect. Plus, with the open tunings, they are really responsive to hammer ons and pull offs. Also, learn tripletts (especially if your going to play scottish tunes) They will add so much to your playing. Listen to Tony Mcmanus. Total wizard on the guitar. http://www.tonymcmanus.com/mp3/TheMaidBehindTheBar.mp3