Lock this if you like.

[Ben Steen]

I hope this is the best place to submit opinions ~ i.e. Poststructural Pub Tab. I left The Mustard when it decided to remove a bit of the spice from it's comments; though frankly it promptly turned into a somewhat bland medium minus it's previously much more open discussion about playing music.

Obviously 'traditional' perspectives are bound to be suspect in the information age. So, in the interest of finding the most acceptable, innovative channel for moving forward & not being locked out of further discussion can we come to The Chiff & Fipple Poststructral Pub & feel free to agree to disagree?

If not below this ^ tab then where?

[kkrell]

Ben, you can generally avoid threads being locked if you adhere to the basic principles of the "C&F Consolidated Concordat on Policy (CCCP)"

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84192

particularly

The overall guiding principle should be that of being a "Reasonable Person". This idea was originally borrowed by Rich from guidelines used by Carnegie Mellon University:

"Everyone will be reasonable. Everyone expects everyone else to be reasonable. No one is special. Do not be offended if someone suggests you are not being reasonable. Reasonable people think about their use of these facilities, and the needs of others, and adjust their behavior to meet the goals of a common good for the community, i.e., expressing what you want to say, but accepting and accommodating the needs of others."

[cboody]

I think Ben's take on what happened to TheMustard is a bit off base. There were really a couple of things: Some very fine knowledgable musicians just got sick of the ignorant blather and their failure to be able to try to correct misapprehensions without being involved in acrimonious debate by folks who didn't know what they were talking about. Some of those folks quit. Others became abrasive, or some would say more abrasive in their statements, enough so that the moderator locked them out for various periods. From my perspective this was a sad situation because their remain some very opinionated folks whose opinions I think might be suspect, and no one to "joust" with them.

I'm not enough of an ITM guy to argue the performance issues, but I wince at some of the theory and notation statements. I've years of experience with formal music training, and folks are blandly making just plain false statements and no one corrects them. I've given up.

Fortunately the Mustard has devolved into discussions of how to start, how to play particular instruments, tune identification and the like. But as Ben says that is pretty bland compared to some of the discussions that used to occur. But, we need not concern ourselves with TheMustard here.

I think the guidelines here are more than reasonable and folks seem to disagree in amiable ways. I also think the moderators here are great at suggesting or demanding as needed. Makes for robust discussion without the dreck one gets from, say, political discussion groups. Those folks don't seem able to say four words without some sort of vulgarity...and I'm no prude.

[Sirchronique]

Why are you running along to a new forum and complaining about problems you had on another forum? This isn't that forum. May as well leave the problems there, where they started.

If you don't like the other forum, a good solution would be to not post there. Simple as that. Soooo....why are you telling us? This is chiff and fipple.

If you don't break the forum rules here, I don't think you'll have a problem. I think that people having a disagreement is not the problem so much as how they go about it. Educating a person about something they don't know about, sharing things you know from experience, and saying one's views aren't a problem, unless the person belittles the other and acts offensively towards them.

I think some people take internet disagreements a bit too seriously. If you get that upset, simply turn off the computer and go play some music instead of arguing about it all day on the internet.

[kkrell]

Is the C&F "Offensive" forum that was split off still running at an off-site location for the more political and argumentative stuff?
Answering myself. Yes it is, at
http://cnfpoli.informe.com/

[benhall.1]

I dunno, Ben, ya come here with yer snivelling, whiney little ... oh it was an argument you wanted? Sorry, this is abuse. Arguments are down the corridor, second on the right. You're welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[Ben Steen]

But where's the pub?
True, other forums are neither here nor there when it comes to discussions in this forum; though I'm grateful this forum has a tab for wide open discussions. Basically I'm asking about the Poststructural Pub tab. It's the best place to speak, as they say, off-topic ? The other tabs being relatively more structured, so to speak?

[Nanohedron]

But where's the pub?

Why, right here. This is the place. Grab yourself a virtual pint and kick back.

True, other forums are neither here nor there when it comes to discussions in this forum; though I'm grateful this forum has a tab for wide open discussions. Basically I'm asking about the Poststructural Pub tab.

Help me out, here: What do you mean by "tab"?

It's the best place to speak, as they say, off-topic ?

Absolutely. Although if the Pub is designated "Off-Topic", what does that really mean in the bigger sense? I've always wondered. I mean, if you start a thread on eggs here, how is it off-topic from anything? And if the same thread winds up talking about wrenches, is that no longer considered off-topic if the Pub is for off-topic? It makes my head explode. But one thing's for sure: if you start a basic thread on whistles in the Pub, your thread will be moved to the Whistle Forum. So there's that for off-topic, anyway.

Here in the Pub people have carried on about bubble wrap, zombies, cats, dogs, cheese, recipes, poetry, cars, beer, you name it. But as you probably noticed, it's not so lively now; here's hoping the famed silliness of yore may again revive. It's been pretty fun.

There are some restrictions, though: for general guidance please refer to The CCCP, and for posting parameters in particular see #1, #4 and #10. They're easy to work with.

The other tabs being relatively more structured, so to speak?

There's that "tab" word again. But yes, you've got it. Although be warned: Going conversationally off-topic in all forum threads is sooner or later possible-to-likely the longer they get, and this is kind of taken for granted. Thread drift is a time-honored C&F tradition.

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing, Ben: the mods don't lock threads if we like. We agonise and rend our garments over having to do it, and so far you seem to be doing a fine job of evading the jackboot.

[Ben Steen]

Tab may simply be a stub protruding from some Bored Index; viewforum.php?f=28 or perhaps a metaphor for tabbie, as in cat; the cat who strays off-topic & finds a side street with a tiny, hole-in-the-wall pub which is virtually empty though you never know which hep-cat might drop in, just to talk & play. Because cats love to play.

Meow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In4RApFur5U&t=4m20s

I only hope there's room for the ocassional discussion about whistles (etc.) in the pub; as in what happens in the pub stays in the pub ~ off-topic or not. Otherwise why the pub?

[Nanohedron]

I only hope there's room for the ocassional discussion about whistles (etc.) in the pub; as in what happens in the pub stays in the pub ~ off-topic or not. Otherwise why the pub?

It's all about focus. About whistles in passing, sure. About multitasking your whistle as a blowgun, absolutely. Its efficacy as a vampire repellent too, for that matter, or using the bell end as a cookie-cutter to make teensy fairy biscuits. But about which is the best whistle to buy, or how to do cuts, taps, and rolls? Please. Not that, not here.

[Innocent Bystander]

It's a meta-opinion: an opinion about opinions.

Or rather, an opinion about forums. (No, not "fora". We are not speaking Latin, here.)
There are times when an internet forum seems such a cosy place: it's like family! Everyone rubs along, contributing this, criticising that, and people get drawn in and feel involved.
And then the trolls arrive, or someone mentions something contentious, noses are put out of joint, and there is unpleasantness. I've been a member on a few forum pages where the moderators seemed to get bitten by vampires, and previous mild observations such as "nice punctuation, MTGuru" (I'm using one of our model moderators as an example, here; I'm not referring to Chiff & Fipple, not our thoughtful mods) would result in immediate banning.
Yes, it's as extreme as that. And the cosy place becomes the worst type of shooting gallery with the forum members standing in front of the targets.
The emotional fallout is intense.
In extreme cases - and these were extreme - refugee forums sprang up. Mostly, these withered away from dwindling membership and members too traumatised to post.

So be gentle to the OP. (S)He's taken it badly. I prescribe a TV marathon of his/her favourite feelgood box-set.

[emmline]

Here in the Pub people have carried on about bubble wrap, zombies, cats, dogs, cheese, recipes, poetry, cars, beer, you name it. But as you probably noticed, it's not so lively now; here's hoping the famed silliness of yore may again revive. It's been pretty fun.

(warning: thread drift...)
No, not SO lively, is it? You got me thinkin' Nano...I really rode the wave of Fiffledom, and it helped carry me through a pretty rough decade. I joined in '03! It was fun. It is a good thing that I'm having a little more brick and mortar fun these days, but yeah...good times, cool personalities. I always wanted to have a big, in person, party.

Thanks to the diligent mods for keeping things on a decent keel over the years!

p.s. I'm pretty sure "tab" references the filing folder style tabs look that forms the top image in many browsers, enabling toggling among several open windows.

[Bloomfield]

Diligent mods? Reasonable? Ha.

I'll never forgive Nano for banning me, just because of the traditional noodle incident. And it wasn't even my fault.

[kkrell]

Diligent mods? Reasonable? Ha.

I'll never forgive Nano for banning me, just because of the traditional noodle incident. And it wasn't even my fault.

Wow, a voice from the past! 2 posts in 3-4 years, and still leaving you with an average of 1.81 posts per day.

[Nanohedron]

I'll never forgive Nano for banning me, just because of the traditional noodle incident. And it wasn't even my fault.

Wait...what? I don't remember it, but if I banned you, what are you doing here?