Chiff and Fipple Forums

When I was a kid there were great poets
who we talked about and studied, Yeats,
Eliot, Pound.

I can't think of anybody of that stature today,
indeed, poetry is much more peripheral to
the arts (no slight intended to poets on
the board).

When I was a kid there were great artists like
Picasso and Matisse. I have entirely lost touch
with painting and sculpture. I can't think
of any great painters today. Painting has
moved to the periphery of the arts.

When I was a kid there were great composers
like Stravinsky, Copeland, Shostakovich.
I can't think of any to day, except perhaps
Philip Glass, who most people don't like.

Same goes to some extent for play writing;
there was Shaw and Inge and Eugen O'Neill.
Nobody of that stature now.

Dance also seems to have descended considerably,
there are no contemporary rivals to Martha Graham
and Isadora Duncan, great dance theoreticians
as well as dancers.

Why?

i know what you mean, although sadly I was born too late for just about everyone you mentioned.

I'm going to hazard a guess... It may have something to do with intellectual property laws.

monkey587 wrote:i know what you mean, although sadly I was born too late for just about everyone you mentioned.

I'm going to hazard a guess... It may have something to do with intellectual property laws.

I reckon that Jim was a bit after Yeats and Shaws time. Their work is still as vibrant today as it was then.
The same goes for the composers and painters, it's all out there today.

There is plenty of talent out there today but we don't get to hear/see it as easily probably because of the mass media/ cable and the general dumbing down of society.

Slan,
D.

The arts haven't fallen into decay. There are playwrights, composers and poets today to rival the greatest of old.
The issue lies in the nature of modern media.

Cofaidh wrote:The arts haven't fallen into decay. There are playwrights, composers and poets today to rival the greatest of old.
The issue lies in the nature of modern media.

Who are the great composers of today?

There is also the issue that you only know the "greats" when you read their obituaries.

When you say poets I think: Roger McGough, Wendy Cope, Seamus Heaney...

When you mention playwrights I think: Tom Stoppard...

Artists: Anthony Green...

As Cofaidh says, the nature of modern media is part of it.
Another part is the nature of historical media. Characters were built up a little out of proportion to their acheivements. But hindsight being 20/20 vision is a big part of it. And there is a lot more history than there is present.

John Williams comes to mind...

Gorecki has done some lovely stuff.

Slan,
D.

dubhlinn wrote:Gorecki has done some lovely stuff.

Slan,
D.

Yeah, good point. I'd forgotten about him. and Part. and Gubaidalina...

Cofaidh wrote:The arts haven't fallen into decay. There are playwrights, composers and poets today to rival the greatest of old.
The issue lies in the nature of modern media.

I like to think this is the case. It is taking longer for the chaff to settle unfortunately sometimes not within the life of the artist. I am sure my art work will be used in textbooks from now until 2012... when textbooks become obsolete, alright I'm being optimistic................

dubhlinn wrote:Gorecki has done some lovely stuff.

I asked a musician friend if there were any living composers whose work was considered great. She mentioned Gorecki and Arvo Part. I got some of their music from the library but I'm sorry to say I didn't like Gorecki at all and found Part ok. Maybe I listened to the wrong stuff but The Gorecki was mainly big blocks of sound.

The baby got thrown out with the bath water. After the turmoil of the 60s, wholesale cultural rejection of the 70s, and political correctness of the 80s and 90s, works of dead white men (and women in some cases) are discredited as well as their imperial and/or colonial culture.

The thing is, there was an organized and coherent motion inherent in post-Enlightenment artistic and literary production, criticism and institutions that led people along a path, ever upwards. It could be confining as hell, but it was something. It actually gave artists something to rebel against, even while being a part of it (I am thinking of those French salons, I guess). The two world wars didn't help, which coincided with the post-modern eclecticism especially in music and visual arts, which alienate so many.

Into the void moves sellable and catchy world music, neo-tribalism, etc etc. Short attention span everything. Politically, activists calling for resurrection of cultures, any but Western, help speed up the abandonment of Euro-centric institutions. You end up with aggressive rejection of the fruits of the Enlightenment.

Then lately, the demise of the middle class results in tiered marketing and demographics, locking a lot of people out of experiencing older arts and culture by ticket price.

By adopting a culture of revolution and questioning of authority and social norms, a curious thing has happened, even to the Weekender. Despite the fact that I am a classically-trained musician, there are times that I watch a symphony or chamber music performance, and feel very alienated from the players. They seem so stiff and pretentious even foolish, yet I know they are sincere in their execution. I feel like they are the symbol of Euro-centric thinking, and I am an ill-fitting hybrid of the New World. The stupider of my clan would even mock them, even though my intellectual mind tells me that what they are doing is refined and highly disciplined...

It's a very weird feeling, but bottom line is that the arts do not have the exalted position they once had in an increasingly disordered and culturally ambivalent world. There is no generalized feeling that the symphony, for example, is one of the greatest expressions of organized music-making. There used to be one, methinks. Opera, too...

television

The Weekenders wrote:Then lately, the demise of the middle class results in tiered marketing and demographics, locking a lot of people out of experiencing older arts and culture by ticket price.

Not to mention that our only classical radio station (maybe you have more choices up your way) markets itself in the most pretentious and pathetically barf-worthy way. Classical music is apparently no longer useful for anything other than soothing yourself during your stressful commute.