The English language

[Congratulations]

I may be a fruit, but I am not old.

[Innocent Bystander]

I may be a fruit, but I am not old.

Apologies - it was the influence of the plums. But also I'm reading a Wodehouse Omnibus: "Uncle Fred". Mannered writing tends to colour my expression. Amusing with Wodehouse, bearable under Jane Austen, painful under Shakespeare, and plain offensive under Henry James.

Here's my favourite "Uncle Fred" passage so far. Lord Ickenham (Uncle Fred) speaks:

"It is so often the way. We start out in life with more pimples than we know what to do with, and in the careless arrogance of youth think they are going to last for ever. But comes a day when we find that we are down to our last half-dozen. And then those go. There is a lesson in this for all of us."

[peteinmn]

I found this very readable a couple of years ago. It's actually the companion book to a PBS series.


http://tinyurl.com/32zxev

[s1m0n]

As in most human pursuits, the quest for purity is generally the sign of some psychological malfunction.

~~

The core of english--the 100 or so words you use most--have remained remarkably stable for the entire time that english has been a written language.

English is a language which appropriates nouns and (some) verbs with abandon but hasn't added a preposition or conjunction in centuries.

SO no matter what the language the noun was born in, if you're ordering it about using english prepositions, you're speaking english.

[s1m0n]

The main problem I have with people who speak English (American English, anyway) is everyone is so lazy with pronunciation. If you ever watch a French person speak, you can see how much their mouth works. Every syllable has a different shape, and they don't half-form them.

English speaking people make vowels with their tongue. French speaking people make vowels with their lips. This is the secret to faking a good french accent.

[perrins57]

I agree with everything above, except the bit about it not being the most beautiful language for me to speak.

The most sensual and emotionally expressive language that I like to hear (especially in song) and speak is Portuguese. I guess French is close after that...

English is great because it has so many words (partly because it has borrowed so widely from other languages). This huge vocabulary makes it incredibly expressive and also helps to explain why it has become the international language in legal and political circles (you can make it say anything).
But for sensuality and emotion, I don't think you can beat Italian. I tried learning some from a software package, even describing the taking out of rubbish sounds cool in Italian! Italians argue better than any one else I've heard, they sound like they're singing. Its the only language to rival English for singing as well - and if you don't agree itsa da concrete shoes for you!
Welsh on the other hand, my mother tongue (not really, my mother can't speak it) sounds like a language created by people with a speech defect. Don't get me wrong,I love my country, I just wish we spoke Italian.

[MTGuru]

If you ever watch a French person speak, you can see how much their mouth works. Every syllable has a different shape, and they don't half-form them. And if you hear a native French speaker who is very good at English, they form every syllable very precisely.

Dude, you need to hang out with some French musicians after their last set for the night.

Afraid I have to agree.

Congrats, dapray sktadeemec shponsk tapa bokurstay lalexagon!

(D'après ce que tu as dit, mec, je pense que tu n'as pas beaucoup resté là à l'Hexagone!)

[chas]

In the future, development of the 'English' language may be mostly done by the non-English.

Internet English.

Or Spanglish.

The most sensual and emotionally expressive language that I like to hear (especially in song) and speak is Portuguese.

Man, the first time I heard Fado, in a little restaurant in Lisbon, I couldn't imagine why opera composers felt that Italian was the most expressive language. Portuguese is really a lovely language.

[djm]

Apparently where he's from is closer to Ireland than Toronto.

If he's really Newfy, get him to give you a dose of outport. Yes, a Newfy sounds close to a southern Irish accent at times, but try and imagine an Irish accent with all the consonants removed. Its almost Glaswegian!



djm

[hyldemoer]

In the future, development of the 'English' language may be mostly done by the non-English.

Internet English.

Or Spanglish.

Years back I read somewhere that by the year 2010 there would be more Spanish speaking people in the USA than English.

Then the internet hit.

[buddhu]

...

The most sensual and emotionally expressive language that I like to hear (especially in song) and speak is Portuguese. I guess French is close after that... Of the former, I find that the words just flow off of my tongue after being savored in the mouth, and the New World version is a bit more open than the Old. I know that sounds weird, but Brazilian Portuguese has a very nice balance of open vowels and sibilant consonants. Italian has more of the open vowels with some percussive consonants. Spanish can sound prettier than Italian I think, but Portuguese seems to have all of the character of those two with a kind of French mouth added. Yeah, I know, weird and Anglo-centric impressions.

I'm not as good at speaking the latter (French), but its a beautiful language to listen to.

I spent a few months in India and do remember the there was a musical quality to much of what I heard, but not as sing-songy to my ears as Far Eastern tongues. Hindustani certainly lends itself to song, as the movies attest.

And yeah, English at it's best is usually from a Brit's mouth, tis true. It's a cheap way to impress Americans. And they are overly impressed wi' it. Chick magnet.

With the south Asian languages I eventually got the hang of the differences between the dental and retroflex consonants, but I still occasionally drop in a diphthong where a pure vowel sound should go - most often with an 'o'. It's not that I can't do the pure sound, but I forget if I try to speak too quickly.

I tried Portuguese, but actually found it inexplicably difficult. Maybe partly because I have none of the other Latin/Romance lingos under my belt.

Spoken English varies so much across the UK and Ireland that speakers from widely separated areas may have real problems communicating. A broad Scot or Geordie may find herself unintelligible to someone with a strong rural Cornish accent, and vice versa.

I can do either BBCish, middle-class English (which is what I was brought up with at home), or a south-east, working class dialect (bordering on Estuary English) which I began to acquire once I left junior school and began to mix with more kids. My natural speech is now a kind of hybrid of the two.

Which kind of English is it that Americans find so appealing? BBC English, upper-class idiot English, the working class dialect crucified by Dick Van Dyke or perhaps the bizarre Scotglish Robin Williams dredged up for 'Mrs Doubtfire'?

[chrisoff]

Which kind of English is it that Americans find so appealing? BBC English, upper-class idiot English, the working class dialect crucified by Dick Van Dyke or perhaps the bizarre Scotglish Robin Williams dredged up for 'Mrs Doubtfire'?

Whenever I've seen that question, or similar, asked before the majority have said Scottish. Because we're ace. However I've got a feeling that this board may reveal more emerald leanings.

[perrins57]

Internet English.

Or Spanglish.

Years back I read somewhere that by the year 2010 there would be more Spanish speaking people in the USA than English.

Then the internet hit.

Which probably has more to do with the number of children Catholic Spanish speakers have, than everybody wanting to learn Spanish.
It could also be the strange trends that beset language learning. In Cardiff, (Wales' Capital) a higher percentage of English parents send their children to Welsh speaking schools than Welsh parents. Maybe they feel their children will connect with their new country better if they speak the lingo?

[talasiga]

As in most human pursuits, the quest for purity is generally the sign of some psychological malfunction.

~~

And what, pray tell, is that malfunction which is characterised by the quest for purity in psychological function?

[djm]

Attending this nut house regularly clearly defies even the pretense of seeking purity in psychological function.

djm