The Cup

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:13 am

Jens_Hoppe wrote:But yes, Zidane was undoubtably provoked (verbally or even by being pinched, as reported in some media)

Pinched?!? Ah, well, in that case Zidane should have run up and given the guy a flying tickle

Loren

Louigi Verona · Post by **Louigi Verona** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:19 am

What I don't understand is why people would connect sport with their national pride, In my opinion, it is not related at all - sports are sports and if you lost it doesn't mean your country sucks or whatever. Also, it is not very wise to think your team would 100% win and then get upset.
But yeah, I understand what the frustration might be when you've built certain expectations.

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:41 am

It's not really a cup.

Zinedine Zidane's agent says the France captain headbutted Marco Materazzi in Sunday's World Cup final because the Italian made a "very serious" comment.

Materazzi: "Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec was an aristocrat, the heir of Comte Alphonse-Charles de Toulouse and last in line of a family that dated back a thousand years! Lautrec's style is nearer drawing than painting and he is known for his impressionist images of Parisian night scenes!"

Zidane: "Sacre bleu!" *Bam!*

Materazzi: "Aieee!"

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:53 am

GaryKelly wrote:Materazzi: "Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec was an aristocrat, the heir of Comte Alphonse-Charles de Toulouse and last in line of a family that dated back a thousand years! Lautrec's style is nearer drawing than painting and he is known for his impressionist images of Parisian night scenes!"

Once he got his breath back, Materazzi continued:
"Furthermore, the Cartesian coordinate system does not represent
the 4th and 5th dimensions as well as Plücker's geometry!"

This enraged Zidane so much that he did not come out to receive
his medal.

SteveShaw · Post by **SteveShaw** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:59 am

I think Materazzi said to him "You don't know Foucault, do you?" and Zizou misheard slightly...

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:00 pm

Brilliant, who would've thought serious matters could be so fun.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:39 pm

Materazzi was talking to Zidane about the hot weather when he shouted to him over the din of the crowd "Uncool, eh?" For some reason this upset Zidane.

scottielvr · Post by **scottielvr** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:21 pm

AaronMalcomb wrote:Materazzi was talking to Zidane about the hot weather when he shouted to him over the din of the crowd "Uncool, eh?" For some reason this upset Zidane.

pthouron · Post by **pthouron** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:03 am

SteveShaw wrote:And Zinedine, you who above all others should know how to act like a grown man - do me a favour, pal! He managed single-handedly to sour the whole thing. He'd better have a good excuse tomorrow.

Well, for one, imagine playing for 110 minutes under pressure, last game of your career, World Cup at stake, and being constantly fouled by no less than the Serie A "butcher". I have the game on tape, and every time Zidane has the ball, his shirt is being tugged on, he's being pulled down or fouled, many times without a call from the referee. Then, Materazzi said whatever he said, which incidentally is against the FIFA rules, but rarely gets called unlike the fouls it provokes.
So, Zidane didn't fit the image that was built around him. He is punished and vilified more for not following the "fairy-tale" script than for the foul he committed. And those judging him do so from the comfort of their living-room couch. I've always admired the footballer for his incomparable skill, but I think I like the man even more for his dramatic flaw. People ask: "What should we tell our kids who saw this?". The answer is easy:"Sh*t happens and to err is human". In the end, righting an insult was more important to him than winning a trophy. There's a lesson right there.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:45 am

I really don't know much about futebol, just being an every four year kinda watcher, but compared to Maradona, who got away with just about everything you could imagine, I'll take the one blow by Zidane and continue thinking of him as a hero of the game. I know this sounds extreme, but I am sorry the ref was watching. I saw so much crap pulled by the Argentines years ago that I still am disgusted by the memory.

And is this what it takes to get Pthou out of chiffy posting retirement? Nice to hear from ya!!!

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:46 am

pthouron wrote:
SteveShaw wrote:And Zinedine, you who above all others should know how to act like a grown man - do me a favour, pal! He managed single-handedly to sour the whole thing. He'd better have a good excuse tomorrow.
Well, for one, imagine playing for 110 minutes under pressure, last game of your career, World Cup at stake, and being constantly fouled by no less than the Serie A "butcher". I have the game on tape, and every time Zidane has the ball, his shirt is being tugged on, he's being pulled down or fouled, many times without a call from the referee. Then, Materazzi said whatever he said, which incidentally is against the FIFA rules, but rarely gets called unlike the fouls it provokes.
So, Zidane didn't fit the image that was built around him. He is punished and vilified more for not following the "fairy-tale" script than for the foul he committed. And those judging him do so from the comfort of their living-room couch. I've always admired the footballer for his incomparable skill, but I think I like the man even more for his dramatic flaw. People ask: "What should we tell our kids who saw this?". The answer is easy:"Sh*t happens and to err is human". In the end, righting an insult was more important to him than winning a trophy. There's a lesson right there.

Nice, very nice.

He knew what was important and what was wrong.

Slan,
D.

amar · Post by **amar** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:08 pm

I heard that he was called a terrorist and that his sister was a whore.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:09 pm

I can't stand the way football codes punish the retaliator more severely than the instigator. If the retaliator escalates, and the provocation is purely physical, then both should be punished. But if you punished the instigator, and let off the tit-for-tat retaliator with a warning or a less severe penalty, there would be a lot less violence. With cameras at every big game, it isn't hard to tell after the game who instigated. Verbal provocation is harder to detect though.

The final was a good game. As with several earlier games, the French played the Italians off the park for most of the game without being able to finish. I don't think that any team was outstanding but all the teams who showed attacking flair either choked or blew it in frustration against the more dour teams, in particular Italy. I thought that the French victory over Brasil and several earlier games involving Germany, Portugal and Argentina produced more satisfying football. Defense is important, but I'd have been happier with Italy if they'd attacked in a more fluent way. That said, their defense was very good. Several teams including Australia, made the mistake of attacking through the middle. Italy could probably have played for 6 months without conceding a goal to that kind of attack. But when they were stretched on the flanks the problem was that their defense was so good in the air it was hard to convert from crosses too. A defensive coach would have loved them. I'd prefer to be entertained.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:43 pm

Wombat wrote:I can't stand the way football codes punish the retaliator more severely than the instigator.

Ach, what do you expect from a sport where every little touch of the shins results in one guy falling down and rolling around theatrically as if he were actually hurt, until a foul is called. Pfft, they ought to give an off setting penalty for undue histrionics.

Loren

pthouron · Post by **pthouron** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:44 pm

I received this email from my friend Georges (from France). Translated loosely, it loses a bit but is still quite funny…

"Dear Friends,

Zidane’s head butt has made a lot of ink flow and a lot of lips flap and it seems everyone has an opinion. Thank God for this debate that will fuel the news and Sports pages now that the dog days of summer are here. Whether it is an angry or unsportsmanlike gesture, the head butt remains a highly technical skill which necessitates a bit of experience. Strike the opponent too high or too low, and it is likely to miss the intended effect, and possibly hurt the head butter instead. It is therefore a weapon that must be wielded with care and decisiveness. The blow must be forceful, quick and precise and Zidane’s was perfect on all counts!
The point of impact was indeed unusual, since one generally aims at the nose or teeth (teeth are preferable). But the size of the target was such that Zidane would have had to jump, thereby giving advance notice. So, he chose the sternum, his opponent’s only anatomical area within striking range considering this individual as a whole is quite repellent (as those who follow Italian soccer will know). In conclusion, the gesture was aesthetically beautiful and deserved worldwide exposure.
I’ll let the sportscasters and couch potatoes cry foul, but I, for one, bow to the artist.

Georges"