Chiff and Fipple Forums

Lisa Marie weighs in.

http://blogs.myspace.com/lisamariepresley

Also, joke going around:

When Farrah Fawcett went to heaven she made a wish that all the little children would be safe, so God killed Micheal Jackson.

y'all just using Lisa Marie to get that joke in

jim stone wrote:A psychologist who saw
films of Jackson playing with children at Neverland testified that he
didn't seem at all like a pedophile, he seemed like a child, a
'regressed ten-year-old.'

There is no shortage of psychologists who would be willing to claim that they can tell by watching films whether a person seems like a pedophile.

Doubtless, and what he said could still be true. Also this wasn't any old psychologist; he was the
psychologist who reported Jackson to the authorities. He had assisted the first accuser's family
in uncovering whether there was sexual abuse and he had heard the details against Jackson of the second accuser's
family, on the basis of which he reported him (as required by law). That he later stated that Jackson wasn't a pedophile
but a regressed 10 year old counts for something--doubly so given the suspect
nature of the evidence in both cases.

'Janet approached Larry Feldman, the attorney who represented Jordan Chandler (first accuser) in 1993.[8] This made some believe she was intent on getting money because she went to an attorney before the police – it was also the same attorney who helped get an out-of-court settlement for Jordan Chandler for a reported $20 million. Larry Feldman then sent the family to psychologist Dr. Katz, which was also the same psychologist that assisted the first accusers family to uncover whether there might have been sexual abuse.[8] The accuser's brother told him that he had witnessed Jackson touching his brother, after which Katz reported this to the authorities, as is compulsory for someone of her profession in such a case, being a "mandatory reporter of child abuse" although she later stated that in her opinion Jackson was not a pedophile but a regressed 10 year old.[8]'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson

P.S. by the way, my claim that he reached his conclusion on the basis of watching a film seems to
be a mistake, as I can't find anything about it now. Also Wiki seems in error in referring to Katz as 'her.'
Stan Katz is the name.

I'm a pedalphile. A whole group of us ride together every Saturday morning. We wear strange clothes, it's east to identify us from a mile away at least, no special skills needed.

Dale wrote:I think it is hard for people to align the idea of an apparently good-hearted person who cares about children with evidence of pedophilia. I once went to a 3-day workshop on pedophilia given by a long-time FBI agent who investigated child molestation cases for 30 years or so. Whatever the opposite of naive is, he was. He said that for the longest time he asked himself how pedophiles could so often come off convincingly as nice people who care about children until he realized that some pedophiles are nice people who care about children.

I am certain that false accusations of child sexual abuse occur. However, when there are accusations of child molestation from multiple parties, layered on top of a personality and set of public behaviors that are consistent with pedophilia, it strains credibility to dismiss them all as false accusations.

Up to a point, I feel sorry for pedophiles. I don't think anyone wakes up and decides he wants to be a pedophile. However, the pedophile has 100 percent of the burden of refraining entirely from acting on his impulses. He must do whatever he must do to prevent himself from acting on it. Any pedophile should be able to look at the world and realize that he has impulses that are absolutely unacceptable to decent society and he must understand himself as deranged and he has to do what he must to deal with it.

I think that his career as a pop star warrants a good bit of media coverage, but given Mr. Jackson's legal history, some of it seems disrespectful of what everybody must surely agree is at least a substantial possibility that he sexually exploited children.

I think that this post sums it up perfectly.

An imperfect man in an imperfect world, a world that was geared against him from the time he was an averagely beautiful little, ahem, black kid..until the time when he became the biggest Icon of our time.

He lived his life in a pressure chamber..or a vacuam, that not one single one of us can even dream about...or have nightmares about.

A truly rare and unique talent..dead at fifty.


Life is far to short to kick the dead...

There was all the time in the world to post a thread about him when he was alive...

Slan,
D.

dwest wrote:I'm a pedalphile. A whole group of us ride together every Saturday morning. We wear strange clothes, it's east to identify us from a mile away at least, no special skills needed.

I will alert the Tabloids.

'I am certain that false accusations of child sexual abuse occur. However, when there are accusations of child molestation from multiple parties, layered on top of a personality and set of public behaviors that are consistent with pedophilia, it strains credibility to dismiss them all as false accusations.'

No it does not. There were obvious other reasons why someone like
Jackson would be targeted, including his odd public behaviour
which made him more vulnerable. Once he paid up
to make it go away, because his health and sanity were failing,
others would smell the blood.
Emphatically:There really is no substitute for
considering the accusations individually and in detail.
This is a genuine question of
fairness. My father-in-law defended people against such charges.
I think we need to be careful, especially with this sort of
accusation.

jim stone wrote:...'I am certain that false accusations of child sexual abuse occur. However, when there are accusations of child molestation from multiple parties, layered on top of a personality and set of public behaviors that are consistent with pedophilia, it strains credibility to dismiss them all as false accusations.'

No it does not. There were obvious other reasons why someone like
Jackson would be targeted, including his odd public behaviour
which made him more vulnerable. Once he paid up
to make it go away, because his health and sanity were failing,
others would smell the blood.
Emphatically:There really is no substitute for
considering the accusations individually and in detail.
This is a genuine question of
fairness. My father-in-law defended people against such charges.
I think we need to be careful, especially with this sort of
accusation.

So, Jim, it looks as though your position could amount to a Jimmy Carter defense, that he only did it in his mind.

Well, of course Jimmy Carter was innocent, right?

dubhlinn wrote: Life is far to short to kick the dead...

There was all the time in the world to post a thread about him when he was alive...

Slan,
D.

Yeah, right, so here goes. I've just had Bruce Springsteen live at Glastonbury on the widescreen telly, blasting out through the aux on my stereo (I have no neighbours). A real man, a real hairy-arse, with real talent with a real band (including a devastatingly good drummer who looks like he's just come from tea with the vicar). The Boss is still alive so I'm doing yer bidding. No weirdo makeup, no array of professional dancers, no other-worldly lighting, no heavily-edited videos that can make anybody look good, genuine bloody sweat, audience in palm of hand. No techno, no drum machines, no backing tracks, no electronics (note the real piano), no bulls h i t. Talent will out. Jacko was for impressionable kids and was all about parting them from their dough for third-rate commercial c r a p that was good for disco dancing and nothing else. Get this - iTunes has been inundated with downloads of Thriller. So all those people who downloaded it yesterday and today haven't been exactly listening to it much recently, have they? I mean, you go on about kicking a dead bloke and what do you think all these downloaders are doing? How many times do you think they'll actually bother playing their download after this week has gone? It's sad to see so many online ageing rockers on so many forums trying to rationalise "how good" Wacko was, all because they were gullible enough to join the herd and buy his manufactured trash a couple of decades ago and now feel just a tad guilty about it. The interweb's full of yous!

Meanwhile, Muslims the world over are going bonkers speculating on whether MJ actually converted (as has been persistently rumored over the years) and would get a Muslim burial. Prominent religious scholars are writing about him on their websites. The imam at the Friday prayer here even commented on it. Truly weird.

Cork wrote: So, Jim, it looks as though your position could amount to a Jimmy Carter defense, that he only did it in his mind.

Well, of course Jimmy Carter was innocent, right?

Yes. Thought-crimes exist only in fiction.

rh wrote:Meanwhile, Muslims the world over are going bonkers speculating on whether MJ actually converted (as has been persistently rumored over the years) and would get a Muslim burial. Prominent religious scholars are writing about him on their websites. The imam at the Friday prayer here even commented on it. Truly weird.

I'd say there's no rush to claim him as one of yours.

We have all (well, you would have to be living on the moon not to) heard/seen/read of the many strange things that caused the media to coin the 'Whacko Jacko' moniker.
The one thing that struck me over the years was his transformation from the 'sad little black kid' to 'sad little white kid'. I heard of the reasons behind this change; he wanted to look like his idol Diana Ross, then he decided he wanted to look like Elizabeth Taylor, and so on and so on.
When I read that he had a skin condition called vitiligo, I sat up and read with intent. I have vitiligo, it is progressively getting worse although it is not as bad as some have it. It is very distressing. I have to stay out of the sun completely, otherwise I get white blotches over my face and hands which people comment on. I don't get enough sunlight because of this, so I am on vitamins to compensate for my lack of exposure to sunlight. So from my own experience I can understand at least some of his so called 'weird' behaviour in public. I can understand the umbrella and even the white glove takes on a new meaning for me. Because of what vitiligous skin looks like, the glove would be an ideal way to cover it up and Wow!, even start a trend.
I am Caucasian, and when the vitiligo is on the rampage it is really noticable, so I can only imagine the stress it would cause a dark skinned person like Michael Jackson.
I don't know about all the molestation charges and every other sordid media scandal that permeated his sad life, so I won't comment.
Here in Oz, TV showed every MJ and Jacksons video clip on Friday and Saturday night. I really liked 'Can you feel it'. I never liked MJ singing, his voice never changed from the time he sang 'Rockin' Robin' right up to....., Jeezas I don't even know what his latest offering was!
He had a difficult up bringing with questions over his father's methods of dicipline, his private life was fractured and far from being what would could reasonably be called 'normal', and I don't think that you need a certificate in psychiatry to deduce that he had severe emotional problems in his life. I think he lived his life persuing the childhood that he was denied.
I can't wait for the first sighting of him and Elvis at some diner along one of the lonely highways somewhere in the U.S.
Only in America!!!