A 3D printed 'D' whistle

[donaldlindsay]

Hello all!

I've got two videos to share with you :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhkOixsuS-g

"Rare Willie", and :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI0U3YAZjvA

"The Tailor's Wedding"

Both are played on a freshly printed 'D' whistle that I've been working on in AutoCAD

Comments on either the whistle, or the whistling, are welcome although maybe I'll regret saying that!

All the best

Donald

[MTGuru]

Very impressive, both the whistle and the nice playing. I do note that the upper octave is quite flat compared to the lower.

[deisman]

Finally 3D printing has come into its own! Nice whistling and nice whistle too. Cool to see state of the art tech show up in the whistling world. I really like the tone you produced on that whistle. Now print one @ 200%. : )

Do you have to hone or polish the wind way and bore or is the surface finish good enough out of the printer as is? Can all the voicing be handled thru the CAD?

You may have dropped a big pebble into this pond with that whistle for all the makers to think about I reckon. At the least it's one heck of a way to make prototypes. Thanks for sharing.

[donaldlindsay]

Thanks guys - it's an interesting technology. Obviously it has wide implications. I find it exciting for the way in which it makes it possible to create objects that might otherwise be impossible, or just very difficult - I've been using this to print new kinds of Smallpipe chanters, but have yet to think of ways to apply it to the whistle.

MTGuru - yes, unfortunately the upper register is flat. I'll see if I can iron that out in the next print.

For this one I just used the hole placements given online on the Low Tech whistle page. I've been drawing chanters longer, and have a whole system set up to estimate hole placement for them, which I adapt for different kinds of reed. It is still just a way of getting a close estimate, at the best of times, and is then followed by trial and error. I've found with that, that the 'grainy' textured print materials can seem to lower the overall pitch of the instrument by a surprising amount, however it's more the tuning between registers that is a problem here, I wonder if I could balance that by tapering the tube?

Deisman - the whistle is fresh 'off the press'. I just rinsed it to remove the surface dust that tends to stick to laser sintered acrylic prints. It has

I'm going to print quite a few of these, and try different designs and tweaks. Will post the results here for your thoughts if that's ok?

All the best

Donald

[cboody]

Reverse conical bore instruments will even out the octave differences (at least theoretically), but some folks think they change the sound of the whistle too much, making it more recorder like.

[Cayden]

Donald,
WOW! Something in me wanted the whistle to sound horrid prior to me giving your clips a listen. Your playing was delightful and the whistle sounded amazingly sweet. Having now listened and knowing that the whistle was "printed", something in me, likely my appreciation of handcraftd whistles, abhors the entire concept. It seems along the line of cloning a great maker like John Sindt in order to get the final product ( a fine sounding whistle ). The ability to replicate in DNA aside, I will always prefer the original and his original art over that which is produced by robototron printer driven by autocad.

Call me a TRADitionalist!

Cayden

[donaldlindsay]

Cayden - you've raised an interesting point I think. (and by the way, thanks for your kind comments!)

What makes a great whistle I think, or any instrument, is the knowledge applied to it by the maker or designer, and in the case of brass (and 3D printed?) whistles, by the player who works on it.

So, I'm not sure there's a great deal of difference between a brass generation or feadog whistle, moulded and stamped out according to a plan, or my 3D whistle - which I carefully drew out in AutoCAD (not an easy process of cut and paste I have to say), and then printed, again according to a plan if you like. It's worth noting that several very talented irish whistle players prefer the cheap whistles. Some will buy quite a few, and do a fair bit of 'post production' work on them to tune them and find the sound they want. I'd be inclined to ask what you think the difference is with 3D printing. It has the same characteristics of availability, it's becoming quite cheap (this whistle isn't quite as cheap as a generation, but it's getting that way), and what's more, the player can now footer about with wind way shape and size, hole placement, body side, wall thickness, and even material. It seems to me to be very much in the spirit of those who use the very cheap, very available mass produced whistles. It's a leveller - craftsman made whistles will always have their place, however I don't think it'll be the craftsman made whistles that 3D printed ones will compete with.

All the best

Donald

[donaldlindsay]

And by the way, if anyone wants a copy of the current whistle drawings, just ask!

They're in .dwg format, for AutoCAD. There's several stages included, so you'll see how I built the model and should be able to tweak it to your hearts content. Remember it's currently a bit flat up-top!

Not selling - just offering it by email. You may have noticed STLs offered on that Kickstarter page, but these are not the same - they're optimised for the 'DIY' 3D printers like RepRap, which is a whole different proposition for a whistle, something of a challenge (takes a different kind of craftsmanship to build and use those!). The file I'm sharing here is for sending off to the likes of Shapeways, Ponoko etc..

All the best

Donald Lindsay

[Cayden]

Cayden - you've raised an interesting point I think. (and by the way, thanks for your kind comments!)

What makes a great whistle I think, or any instrument, is the knowledge applied to it by the maker or designer, and in the case of brass (and 3D printed?) whistles, by the player who works on it.

So, I'm not sure there's a great deal of difference between a brass generation or feadog whistle, moulded and stamped out according to a plan, or my 3D whistle - which I carefully drew out in AutoCAD (not an easy process of cut and paste I have to say), and then printed, again according to a plan if you like. It's worth noting that several very talented irish whistle players prefer the cheap whistles. Some will buy quite a few, and do a fair bit of 'post production' work on them to tune them and find the sound they want. I'd be inclined to ask what you think the difference is with 3D printing. It has the same characteristics of availability, it's becoming quite cheap (this whistle isn't quite as cheap as a generation, but
it's getting that way), and what's more, the player can now footer about with wind way shape and size, hole placement, body side, wall thickness, and even material. It seems to me to be very much in the spirit of those who use the very cheap, very available mass produced whistles. It's a leveller - craftsman made whistles will always have their place, however I don't think it'll be the craftsman made whistles that 3D printed ones will compete with.

All the best

Donald

Donald,
I understand your well taken point that there is indeed a required amount of skill to generate the needed software or program to "print" a whistle. I also fully concur with you that a printed whistle would likely have little real impact on those made by venerable makers. I think your example of cheap mass produced whistles often being "tweaked" supports my stance on this matter in that as a general rule, whistle players are people that appreciate art for art's sake. Perhaps with the arrival of 3D printed whistles, a whole new market has been created for Master Tweaker Jerry Freeman whom has made his mark by adding the personal or "hand altered" touch to machine generated whistles, something that many people (myself proudly included) seem to admire, desire, and will continue to support.

TRADitionalist, hopeless romantic, or financially misdirected, given a chance to buy an inexpensive 3D generated whistle having the exact same playing characteristics as one having been handcrafted by a human being, and selling for substantially more money, I will opt for the latter every time and I would think most whistle players might be in my camp on this issue. For me there exists an intrinsic difference in something that is lovingly crafted as an individual extention of one's being, as opposed to a computer generated stamping. I
hope a number of others weigh in on this matter.

And Donald, my remarks on your playing come right from my very human heart, fine work Mate!

Set In Me Ways,
Cayden

[deisman]

Hi Cayden,

I think I can see your points and understand how you feel. There is definitely something special about hand crafted items and the love the craftsman puts into their work comes through to the buyer / user.

I am not a whistle maker but I know that all manufactured whistles fully hand built or not are built to a specific, tested and evolved design. Plus, regards to copying a whistle I think it's not much of a stretch to say the boutique whistle makers learn from each others designs and this generally moves whistle making forward to a higher place. How the maker achieves the design in wood metal or plastic varies but it is my opinion that in the modern era more and more whistle parts are being made using CAD designs and CNC lathes or machining centers as a better way to exactly recreate the desired design over and over again. This achieves a more consistent end product so fewer lemons that would hurt a makers rep. Plastic injection mold process used to produce whistle heads by some makers was an advance for those manufacturers even if most require tweaking for the discerning player. Does not stop those whistles from selling to their market and this style of whistle remains popular and loved and mass production helps keep whistles affordable.

3D printing is just another visualization of the human design IMO, and one that sounds pretty good. I guess my long-winded point is that instrument makers always used templates, reamers, measurements etc. as part of their formula for making instruments. Modern tools are really just the evolution of the manufacturing process, not a replacement. As a player, when I buy any instrument I want and expect the makers best work. Modern mfg. increases the odds for me, so I see it as a good thing.

Best,

Deisman

[donaldlindsay]

This is getting interesting! I should also point out that I'm very fond of a good handmade whistle, and play a set by Patrick O'Riordan myself.

Of course a craftsman made instrument can be appreciated as a thing in its own right, as well as for the music it makes. To see something made with hands brings you into contact with the craftsman's manual skill, and this is something worthwhile and life affirming. There are plenty of examples of finely made penny whistles - some milled from CAD models using CNC technology of course (as Deisman points out), not a million miles from 3D printing, but finely designed and crafted nonetheless!.

There's something here about freeing creativity though (a familiar theme in coverage of 3D printing). A patient whistler can now draw one at home using free software, with whatever hole and body dimensions, whatever size or design of wind way, in whatever key, basically according to their imagination and ability to draw a picture, and the depth of their understanding of whistle acoustics (obviously a big subject, given my currently flat upper register!). The resulting object is (in the case of the best printers) identical to the picture drawn, so is a product of their own creativity and imagination. In a different way it can tell you a lot about the 'maker' or 'designer' or the 'drawer' of the whistle, or whatever you'd call them, so additionally to being an instrument I think it does also have the other aspects, albeit not in the same way as or to the same degree as a hand made whistle. In some ways I think of it as being similar to (or a modern hi-tech equivalent of) a mythical primordial whistler, who, snatching a reed they like from a bog, cuts an instrument to play in exactly the pitch, and with exactly the sound and scale that they want! Maybe not, but it's not a million miles from the 'PVC pipe' home making that goes on, either!

[Steve Bliven]

Personally I prefer whistles hewn by hand from bog oak using stone tools like the original Irishmen used to do back when they lived in bog caves ...



Photograph of early Irishmen tuning bog oak whistle.

Best wishes.

Steve

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

What we really need is a 3d printed flute or something. It's so, so hard to find an entry-level keyed flute for a reasonable price- even the more expensive whistles are less than a good Irish flute. There are some great keyless options at a good price, sure, but there's really nothing out there for people who want to play the old-style 8-key for Irish music *and* other music. Lowest price for a modern (not antique) 8-key I've found is around 3,000 dollars. (Not including Pakistani rubbish). Whereas a student concert flutist will pay something like 600-700 USD for a decent instrument. I know the modern flute exists for reasons, like ergonomics and whatever, but given that the level of interest in the old style flutes just keeps on rising, it doesn't seem like such a far-off dream to see some more options in the flute world...

[Steve Bliven]

There are some great keyless options at a good price, sure, but there's really nothing out there for people who want to play the old-style 8-key for Irish music *and* other music. Lowest price for a modern (not antique) 8-key I've found is around 3,000 dollars. ..... Whereas a student concert flutist will pay something like 600-700 USD for a decent instrument.

Off-topic, but M & E offers a 6-key for somewhere in the $700-750 range.

Best wishes.

Steve

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Ah, but it's the footjoint that's where it's at. I'll hide now while everyone throws tomatoes.