John McHaffie Redux

Jeferson · Post by **Jeferson** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:36 pm

On 2003-01-29 14:06, Hipbone wrote:
Never, never pay up front for goods/services - whistles, aluminum siding, landscaping, whatever.

Is life really that simple? If so, then we'd never do any mail order business whatsoever. Not with Amazon.com, not with the Whistleshop. Heck, I wouldn't even be able to visit my dentist (who generally asks me to pay before sitting down to get a pre-determined procedure done).

It's possible to be that black and white, but it comes at a cost. Most people end up drawing the line somewhere in between...and it's at that in between spot where there's a bit of risk. Of course, too much risk may lead to a big cost, as well.

But never? Really?
Jef

goesto11 · Post by **goesto11** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:26 pm

Jef, I would agree with the axiom to not pay for anything up front. And when you think about Amazon, you really aren't paying up front. I use a credit card, which provides a good deal of protection. In the past, when I have had issues with sellers not providing a proper good or service, I have contacted my credit card company, and each time have had the charge removed from my card.

John Mac

Jeferson · Post by **Jeferson** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Cheque, credit card, paypal, whatever, you're paying up front, John. You're taking a leap of faith, a risk, that everything will turn out right.

The fact that the transaction is easily undone through the credit card company doesn't change the fact that mail order usually means paying up front and taking a risk. The credit card process just gives you a bit of insurance in case the risk you took doesn't turn out.

Hey, I didn't buy from John McH and don't want to argue this point here much...it's just that a blanket statement saying, "Never, ever pay up front" seems a bit too idealistic for my way of thinking. But that's just me.

Jef

Claus von Weiss · Post by **Claus von Weiss** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:12 pm

Well, I'm one of the people "disappointed" by John McHaffie, meaning I sent him a cheque never getting a sausage back from him (except for mails with tales and promises).
What have I learned from it? Now to distrust other people even more than we usually do?
Ok, I was quite mad and maybe even a bit sad for a time, but I've tried not to learn from this. I still want to trust people (ok, I lock my door, when I leave the house, I'm not that naive), and I surely still want to trust the folks on this forum. And many times this trust has been rewarded, in fact it's a reward in itself, I'm sure. So I won't let some black sheep like McHaffie take this away from me, even when I have to pay a price for it sometimes. Otherwise I would have lost much more than a few bucks then.
Cheers
Claus

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:03 pm

On 2003-01-29 14:06, Hipbone wrote:
RE: "I simply wish to know what have we learned that will help us to ensure the
situation concerning John will not happen again?"

Simple. Never, never pay up front for goods/services - whistles, aluminum siding, landscaping, whatever.

Just tonight I saw a whistle for sale here on the board and sent an inquiry to the seller. If I take the attitude of not paying before receiving it, I'm not likely to get it at all. Why should he send it to someone he doesn't know, and trust me to send the money after I get it? So if none of us send the merchandise until getting paid and no one pays until the stuff arrives, where does that leave us?

Wandering_Whistler · Post by **Wandering_Whistler** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:20 am

I'm pretty sure that most McDonald's or Taco Bells won't give ya your food before you pay for it either..

Then again, that might be a good thing [pats expanding waistline]

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:59 am

On 2003-01-30 01:20, Wandering_Whistler wrote:
I'm pretty sure that most McDonald's or Taco Bells won't give ya your food before you pay for it either..

OT.... Just curious. Do many Houstonians eat at McDonald's or Taco Bell? One's a Meal has better burgers and there are loads of cheap, decent Tex-Mex restaurants?

[ This Message was edited by: Ridseard on 2003-01-30 02:10 ]

Wandering_Whistler · Post by **Wandering_Whistler** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:45 am

On 2003-01-30 01:59, Ridseard wrote:
On 2003-01-30 01:20, Wandering_Whistler wrote:
I'm pretty sure that most McDonald's or Taco Bells won't give ya your food before you pay for it either..

OT.... Just curious. Do many Houstonians eat at McDonald's or Taco Bell? One's a Meal has better burgers and there are loads of cheap, decent Tex-Mex restaurants?

[ This Message was edited by: Ridseard on 2003-01-30 02:10 ]

Having worked for both establishments in my youth, I can say they do plenty of business. There's usually at least one mcdonalds in any given 4 miles stretch of road here...We don't have any "One's A Meal" places, and there are only a few tex-mex chains left..they were big in the 80's, not so much now.

But, in general, I was referring to most any fast food place. Millions of people go to them every year, from Boston Market, to Wendy's, to Wok DeLite. And every one I've been to required payment first.

There's a lot of places that "get the item, pay later" doesn't apply. For instance, when I go to Dillards, if I try to walk out of the store without paying (get the item first, then pay if I like it), they arrest me for shoplifting. I'm expected to pay for the item, and then return it if I don't like it.

Generally, one runs into "pay before" sitautions when dealing with merchandise and "pay after" when dealing with services (getting your car fixed, having a deck installed, hiring a lawyer), though some situations require a deposit/retainer/etc.

(shrug) It's just the way things work most places.

[ This Message was edited by: Wandering_Whistler on 2003-01-30 02:47 ]

Vinny · Post by **Vinny** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:17 pm

The simple lesson: the wisdom of "Caveat Emptor".

For those who got ripped off or were angry with John, just dredges bad feelings.

For those who had a relationship with John, sad memories.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Vinny

McHaffie · Post by **McHaffie** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 9:41 pm

I've been looking through the archives and came accross this thread... if anyone else happens to run accross this I am posting ...

First of all, everything said is deserved and there is no way I could rebuke.

Second, Dale allowed me one post recently to point people to a page with an explanation of events.

I am here to make ammends and am holding myself accountable for any wrongs that have happened. Whatever the price, and no matter how long it may or may not take, Every wrong will be righted.

Anyone may contact me at my new email. Look for a post entitled "Information Regarding Whistles" for the link, which will give you more detail.

John@mcwhistles.com

Take care all,
John

[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-02-16 22:46 ]

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 2:30 pm

That post is here: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 89&forum=1

Bumped by a neutral party who hopes he is respecting Dale & Rich's non-proliferation principles. Hopefully we will soon be seeing messages from satisfied customers.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 5:03 pm

On 2003-02-16 22:41, McHaffie wrote:
I've been looking through the archives and came accross this thread... if anyone else happens to run accross this I am posting ...

First of all, everything said is deserved and there is no way I could rebuke.

Second, Dale allowed me one post recently to point people to a page with an explanation of events.

I am here to make ammends and am holding myself accountable for any wrongs that have happened. Whatever the price, and no matter how long it may or may not take, Every wrong will be righted.

Anyone may contact me at my new email. Look for a post entitled "Information Regarding Whistles" for the link, which will give you more detail.

John@mcwhistles.com

Take care all,
John

[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-02-16 22:46 ]

John, I admire you for what you are trying to do. It takes a huge amount of moxie to sign back on here and explain things and to try to make things right. I wish you well in the coming days. You have a Herculean task ahead of you.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 6:34 pm

Hi, John.

I wasn't a visitor to this board when all the stuff happened, so it may not be my place to chime in. However, I wish you well in your effort to turn things around. It sounds like a monumental mess.

If you can prove to all concerned that you've straightened (or at least are truly straightening) out the problems and now consistantly deliver on your promises, including the promise to take care of all the old complaints, you may develop a loyal whistle clientele on this board despite the disastrous start.

I would caution you, however, to make every effort to live by the adage, "Underpromise, but overdeliver." Whatever you actually do will always be measured against what you said you would do.

If you say, "It'll be ready in a week," and it's ready in ten days, you will have created an impression that you don't keep your promises.

If you say, "It'll be ready in two weeks," and it's ready in ten days, you will have created the impression that you exceed your promises.

In each example, your performance was exactly the same, but the expectation you created made the difference between a disappointed customer or a satisfied, loyal customer.

This information and much more is in the book, _Customers for Life_ by Carl Sewell. Based on what I've read about your situation, I would very strongly recommend that book for you.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Vinny · Post by **Vinny** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:25 am

Hey John,

Good form!

Nice to see you back.

Vinny

McHaffie · Post by **McHaffie** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:48 am

Thanks Vinny, and in response to your post Jerry, I agree, and have stated my approach in the webpage.

I appreciate all who have been so supportive. It's really helping me get things put together.

Take care all,
John