Which is the most useful for playing with guitar people, or playing with others who are not playing in D or G?
E or Eb
A or Bb?
C?
I'd like to get a few more whistles, but I'd like to pick up some really useful keys. I already have a D and an F. Any recommendations? A list of what you'd buy first, second, third, etc. would be helpful (and why).
E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
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AngelicBeaver
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E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Nathaniel James Dowell
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Sirchronique
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Of course, a guitar isn't really limited by key the way a whistle is.
If the guitar player were accustomed to playing with a whistler using a D whistle, they just have to capo the first fret and play like normal for an Eb whistle, and the second fret for an E whistle, to raise it a half step or whole step accordingly. I don't think you should be limited by either with a guitar player , though.
I like soprano Eb whistle much more than soprano E, just because the high E whistle is pretty high pitched.
For low whistles, I really like low E a lot though. And you can actually play some tunes in the correct key on them, too. Any in A Major. I think low E is a good key for the same reason low F is, except a tad lower, and more actually uses within ITM, as far as I can tell.
Edit- The type music you are wanting to play on the whistle would definitely have an impact on what whistle you are wanting to choose. Especially if the guitar player plays tunes in a specific key . It would of course be good to get a whistle that plays in the key they play.
But if you are just asking what works better with guitar players in general, well, any of them *can* work with a guitar player, if they play in the key that suits it. If you want to play in a key that suits them, it would depend on what they are playing.
My list of favourite keys would be
High and low D
Low F and low E
Alto A
And high Eb.
But, I think it's really irrelevant to what would be best in your situation. What keys do the guitar players like the play in? If you have that information, the answer would come a lot more easily
If the guitar player were accustomed to playing with a whistler using a D whistle, they just have to capo the first fret and play like normal for an Eb whistle, and the second fret for an E whistle, to raise it a half step or whole step accordingly. I don't think you should be limited by either with a guitar player , though.
I like soprano Eb whistle much more than soprano E, just because the high E whistle is pretty high pitched.
For low whistles, I really like low E a lot though. And you can actually play some tunes in the correct key on them, too. Any in A Major. I think low E is a good key for the same reason low F is, except a tad lower, and more actually uses within ITM, as far as I can tell.
Edit- The type music you are wanting to play on the whistle would definitely have an impact on what whistle you are wanting to choose. Especially if the guitar player plays tunes in a specific key . It would of course be good to get a whistle that plays in the key they play.
But if you are just asking what works better with guitar players in general, well, any of them *can* work with a guitar player, if they play in the key that suits it. If you want to play in a key that suits them, it would depend on what they are playing.
My list of favourite keys would be
High and low D
Low F and low E
Alto A
And high Eb.
But, I think it's really irrelevant to what would be best in your situation. What keys do the guitar players like the play in? If you have that information, the answer would come a lot more easily
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MTGuru
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
If you play sessions, you'll probably want a C whistle to cover session keys like DDor and GDor. I have my session whistles as D/C pairs whenever possible.
The rest is up to you. As Sirchronique says, a guitarist with a capo doesn't care. And it's their job to accompany you.
You can get a complete set of Generations - Bb C D Eb F G - for around $60.
The rest is up to you. As Sirchronique says, a guitarist with a capo doesn't care. And it's their job to accompany you.
You can get a complete set of Generations - Bb C D Eb F G - for around $60.
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
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Sirchronique
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Indeed. And for some of those things in the nearby pitches to D, they might not even need a capo to accompany you.
After thinking about him asking about something not in G or D , I am wondering if perhaps he is wondering about playing with non-trad guitar players in other types of music, who may not be there just for accompaniment, which is why I say it would depend on what they play. Any key whistle is compatible with guitar though. If you are wanting to make music with guitar players, any of them will do, but the guitar players might have their keys that they most commonly play in. They have no shortage of notes though, so none of the keys of whistle go outside of their range!
After thinking about him asking about something not in G or D , I am wondering if perhaps he is wondering about playing with non-trad guitar players in other types of music, who may not be there just for accompaniment, which is why I say it would depend on what they play. Any key whistle is compatible with guitar though. If you are wanting to make music with guitar players, any of them will do, but the guitar players might have their keys that they most commonly play in. They have no shortage of notes though, so none of the keys of whistle go outside of their range!
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bogman
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
"Whistle usefulness rankings" Nice title! 
Most peoples choices will be different depending on what the do but my choice of ranking would be -
1. D. obviously
2. C. for the keys MTguru mentions, also handy for A minor.
3. Eb. for Eb sessions when they arise and if you play with highland pipes
4. F. for some tunes in Gm and Cm, some scottish tunes and the odd tune with another low whistle player
5. E. for A major tunes that just have too many g#'s to be comfortable
6. A. for the occasional tune in a strange register
Personally I've only used the others for songs or non session stuff.
Most peoples choices will be different depending on what the do but my choice of ranking would be -
1. D. obviously
2. C. for the keys MTguru mentions, also handy for A minor.
3. Eb. for Eb sessions when they arise and if you play with highland pipes
4. F. for some tunes in Gm and Cm, some scottish tunes and the odd tune with another low whistle player
5. E. for A major tunes that just have too many g#'s to be comfortable
6. A. for the occasional tune in a strange register
Personally I've only used the others for songs or non session stuff.
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pancelticpiper
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
If you're playing outside of the ITM world, you never know what key something might be in.
Heck, guitarists have capos and they might, without thinking twice about it, play a certain song a halfstep or fullstep up or down... they might play the same song in a slightly different key every time they play it ("Oh my voice is a little trashed today so I'll take it down a couple frets" etc).
So if you're playing in such situations you really need to be able to cover EVERY key. That guitarist might play that song in C, or up a fret in C#, or down a fret in B, or down two frets in Bb.
What helps is that every whistle has two equally fluent Major keys built into it, one built on the bellnote (the "six finger note") and one built on the 4th degree (the "three finger note").
This allows you to add a flat: a C whistle gives C and F, an Eb whistle gives you Eb and Ab, an Ab whistle gives you Ab and Db, etc.
And to take away a sharp: a D whistle gives D and G, an E whistle gives E and A, a B whistle gives B and E, etc.
What I would call a C# whistle gives C# and F#, more likely appearing as Db and Gb in "legit" music.
So really you only "need" half as many whistles as there are keys, in effect, but I show up at gigs with a whistle in every key, because range is another factor.
Heck, guitarists have capos and they might, without thinking twice about it, play a certain song a halfstep or fullstep up or down... they might play the same song in a slightly different key every time they play it ("Oh my voice is a little trashed today so I'll take it down a couple frets" etc).
So if you're playing in such situations you really need to be able to cover EVERY key. That guitarist might play that song in C, or up a fret in C#, or down a fret in B, or down two frets in Bb.
What helps is that every whistle has two equally fluent Major keys built into it, one built on the bellnote (the "six finger note") and one built on the 4th degree (the "three finger note").
This allows you to add a flat: a C whistle gives C and F, an Eb whistle gives you Eb and Ab, an Ab whistle gives you Ab and Db, etc.
And to take away a sharp: a D whistle gives D and G, an E whistle gives E and A, a B whistle gives B and E, etc.
What I would call a C# whistle gives C# and F#, more likely appearing as Db and Gb in "legit" music.
So really you only "need" half as many whistles as there are keys, in effect, but I show up at gigs with a whistle in every key, because range is another factor.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
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hoopy mike
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
I think it's a question that has many "it depends" factors, but here's the rough order that I obtained my (high) whistles:
D (Feadog, Sweetone, then Dixon trad)
C Eb (Gens - actually I was given these - I probably use the Eb the least of the main whistles I play. The C has a dented tube, and a cracked head)
Bb (Gen Bb - a bargain price for a lovely whistle)
F G (Gens - rarely played - the F is just about passable with care)
C ( a "proper" C - Dixon)
A (I used a modified Gen Bb at first, then I bought a Dixon)
E (Dixon trad)
C# (homemade from a Sweetone - thanks to Peter Laban)
B (homemade from a Gen Bb)
G (alto G from Dixon)
There are occasions when I could do with an F# whistle and also an Ab, but I'll probably have to make my own.
D (Feadog, Sweetone, then Dixon trad)
C Eb (Gens - actually I was given these - I probably use the Eb the least of the main whistles I play. The C has a dented tube, and a cracked head)
Bb (Gen Bb - a bargain price for a lovely whistle)
F G (Gens - rarely played - the F is just about passable with care)
C ( a "proper" C - Dixon)
A (I used a modified Gen Bb at first, then I bought a Dixon)
E (Dixon trad)
C# (homemade from a Sweetone - thanks to Peter Laban)
B (homemade from a Gen Bb)
G (alto G from Dixon)
There are occasions when I could do with an F# whistle and also an Ab, but I'll probably have to make my own.
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Feadoggie
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
AngelicBeaver wrote:Which is the most useful for playing with guitar people, or playing with others who are not playing in D or G?
Based on my experience you will need a B whistle most.AngelicBeaver wrote:I'd like to get a few more whistles, but I'd like to pick up some really useful keys.
Then a low E. Asking us here won't get you a "right" answer for your case, Angelic Beaver. It will be right for our cases though. The key word here is "useful", as in what keys do the players/guitarists/singers you play with "use". It will be mostly dependent on your particular frame of reference. I would normally tell you to go out and play a bit, take a note of the keys of the songs or tunes where you have to sit it out and then make a purchasing decision based on that real world experience instead of listening to all of our hypotheticals (based on our personal experience).
But really, if you just want to start putting together a set of whistles for all eventualities do as MTGuru suggests. Get a set of Gens. Then buy others as you run into a need real for them.
Feadoggie
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AngelicBeaver
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
I guess I'm trying to find out if people tend toward particular keys for relatively common reasons, i.e. lady singers tend to favor Eb which also happens to be nice for guitar and bagpipes (or something like that).
I already have a high D, C, mezzo Bb, G, low F, D, and C, and a flute in Eb (which I can barely play), but I'm very pleased with my Goldie whistles and I'm trying to figure out if I can find some sort of justification to buy more.
Why does Generation have the keys that they chose? Why Bb and not B? Or Eb over E? I keep hearing about CAGED for guitar, so I thought that these would be good keys to have for whistles, but my music theory is a bit sketchy still. Eb seems to be common in a lot of hymnals, but I don't know why. Piano players seem to like C since they can stay on the white keys.
I saw something in Db the other day and I felt very irritable afterwards. So many keys are unnecessary, generally speaking. D's not good enough, C's not good enough, but Db is just right??? Someone wrote that tune for a whistle they wanted an excuse to use.
I definitely want a low C whistle. I've always wanted a bass A (although Colin isn't making them at the moment), but alto A is one that a lot of people seem to enjoy, including Colin. Low G seems to be a recommended key, but I've never really warmed up to the Freeman G I've got. The hole spacing is just awkward for me. Not quite short enough for fingertips, but not quite wide enough for piper's grip. If I had hands that were smaller or larger, I think it would suit me better. Bb is nice, but again, I don't know when I'd be using it. I think I'd enjoy and E whistle, but E or Eb, or both is the question there. I'm tempted to just buy the whole lot and eat Ramen noodles for the next five years.
Possible order of whistles:
1. Baritone C
2. Low E
3. Low Eb
4. Alto A
5. Alto G
6. Low Eb
7. Bass A
8. Bass G
9. Alto Bb
10. Bass Bb
19. Low Db (C#)
See, this is why I want to narrow it down... I finally found a whistle that really suits me and I just want to get the whole set! The nice thing about MK whistles is you only have two key choices, although I suppose that still didn't stop panceltic piper from buying five low D's. I guess I could start adding low D duplicates....
1. Low D, hard blowing
2. Low D, easy blowing
3. Low F, hard blowing
4. (wife kills me)
I already have a high D, C, mezzo Bb, G, low F, D, and C, and a flute in Eb (which I can barely play), but I'm very pleased with my Goldie whistles and I'm trying to figure out if I can find some sort of justification to buy more.
Why does Generation have the keys that they chose? Why Bb and not B? Or Eb over E? I keep hearing about CAGED for guitar, so I thought that these would be good keys to have for whistles, but my music theory is a bit sketchy still. Eb seems to be common in a lot of hymnals, but I don't know why. Piano players seem to like C since they can stay on the white keys.
I saw something in Db the other day and I felt very irritable afterwards. So many keys are unnecessary, generally speaking. D's not good enough, C's not good enough, but Db is just right??? Someone wrote that tune for a whistle they wanted an excuse to use.
I definitely want a low C whistle. I've always wanted a bass A (although Colin isn't making them at the moment), but alto A is one that a lot of people seem to enjoy, including Colin. Low G seems to be a recommended key, but I've never really warmed up to the Freeman G I've got. The hole spacing is just awkward for me. Not quite short enough for fingertips, but not quite wide enough for piper's grip. If I had hands that were smaller or larger, I think it would suit me better. Bb is nice, but again, I don't know when I'd be using it. I think I'd enjoy and E whistle, but E or Eb, or both is the question there. I'm tempted to just buy the whole lot and eat Ramen noodles for the next five years.
Possible order of whistles:
1. Baritone C
2. Low E
3. Low Eb
4. Alto A
5. Alto G
6. Low Eb
7. Bass A
8. Bass G
9. Alto Bb
10. Bass Bb
19. Low Db (C#)
See, this is why I want to narrow it down... I finally found a whistle that really suits me and I just want to get the whole set! The nice thing about MK whistles is you only have two key choices, although I suppose that still didn't stop panceltic piper from buying five low D's. I guess I could start adding low D duplicates....
1. Low D, hard blowing
2. Low D, easy blowing
3. Low F, hard blowing
4. (wife kills me)
Nathaniel James Dowell
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ytliek
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Now you're making sense. As for #4, so what... you'll have all your whistles!AngelicBeaver wrote:I'm tempted to just buy the whole lot and eat Ramen noodles for the next five years.
4. (wife kills me)
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Feadoggie
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Why do you look to us to justify buying more whistles? You are on your own, AB. You've got your line of logic all outlined there it would seem. Besides you don't need any justification just the cash to buy 'em. We're a bunch of whistle junkies here. Buy 'em all, I say.AngelicBeaver wrote:I already have a high D, C, mezzo Bb, G, low F, D, and C, and a flute in Eb (which I can barely play), but I'm very pleased with my Goldie whistles and I'm trying to figure out if I can find some sort of justification to buy more.
There's a reason some of us have so many whistles. I stopped counting them a long time ago. Buy what you can. Keep what you like. Sell what you don't like. Keep the whistle makers making more whistles. It's the cycle of life my friend.
Have fun playing. It's about the music not the whistles.
Feadoggie
I've proven who I am so many times, the magnetic strips worn thin.
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AngelicBeaver
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Why do I look to you guys for justification? Because my wife can't get you, but she can get me. In a life or death situation, I'll throw each and every one of you under the bus and escape by the skin of my teeth, happy to be able to play my new whistles which my bad forum friends told me I should buy. I thought that was quite obvious.
Y'all are like these guys, but with whistles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxoC5Oyf_ss
Y'all are like these guys, but with whistles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxoC5Oyf_ss
Nathaniel James Dowell
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scheky
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
I've owned a lot of whistles in my time. Quite a lot of that has been high-end. Over the years, I've shaved down my collection to what I really play. I just sent an order to Jerry to try out his whistles in the keys I'm actually interested in. I think that leaves a low C as the only key I'm missing (I have a few really nice regular C whistles and a lovely low C flute).
Eb is fun for making something brighter, but I don't tend to play mine very often. I have a decent E whistle which I never play. I don't have a B, but they sound quite lovely at times. Honestly, for just playing for myself, I tend to pick up a Bb or Low F if given the choice. It's all subjective. I don't play with a band, so I don't have the worries of keys.
Of course, don't just try one maker. I sold my Copeland and Sindt D and mostly play a Dixon Trad for my D these days (I'm hoping the Mellow Dog or Blackbird will be even better for me). I have some whistles that David OBrien made me (including a wonderful purpleheart C/D rover set) that I keep mostly for off keys. It's the low whistles where I am a stickler for the high-end it seems. I think you would have to pry my MK from my cold dead hands to get it from me....
Eb is fun for making something brighter, but I don't tend to play mine very often. I have a decent E whistle which I never play. I don't have a B, but they sound quite lovely at times. Honestly, for just playing for myself, I tend to pick up a Bb or Low F if given the choice. It's all subjective. I don't play with a band, so I don't have the worries of keys.
Of course, don't just try one maker. I sold my Copeland and Sindt D and mostly play a Dixon Trad for my D these days (I'm hoping the Mellow Dog or Blackbird will be even better for me). I have some whistles that David OBrien made me (including a wonderful purpleheart C/D rover set) that I keep mostly for off keys. It's the low whistles where I am a stickler for the high-end it seems. I think you would have to pry my MK from my cold dead hands to get it from me....
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Feadoggie
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
Yo, those days are long gone, AB. Officer Krupke bit the dust long ago.AngelicBeaver wrote:Why do I look to you guys for justification? Because my wife can't get you, but she can get me. In a life or death situation, I'll throw each and every one of you under the bus and escape by the skin of my teeth, happy to be able to play my new whistles which my bad forum friends told me I should buy. I thought that was quite obvious.
Y'all are like these guys, but with whistles:
I don't know that the wife can't get to me. We live in a highly advanced technological age. How do I know that the wife isn't snooping on my IP addy right now. That's right Mrs. Beaver, I'm not suggesting any new whistles here.
Hey, there are drones all over the place these days. A little arduino here, a GPS guidance system there, et voila... I really don't want to be sitting out in the garden playing my low D when along comes an air to ground missile to terminate my session with prejudice. Then there's those black helos. Geez Louise, you are on your own, man.
You can try this though. Make your own whistles. It's fairly easy. Then if you need a new key, you make one. And you can acquire lots of expensive tools along the way. Just tell the wife you'll make her something nice with them. Not that I know anyone that has done that before.
Remember, it's a long and joyful journey. Pace yourself.
Feadoggie
Last edited by Feadoggie on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've proven who I am so many times, the magnetic strips worn thin.
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tomcat
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Re: E or Eb whistle and whistle usefulness rankings.
couldn't agree with you more....just when i think i've arrived, i decide to blow up my collection, selling off right and left to allow myself the funds needed to start over. i think i'm like the boy who knocks over his leggo creation to give himself the excuse of rebuilding.Feadoggie wrote:AngelicBeaver wrote:
Remember, it's a long and joyful journey. Pace yourself.
Feadoggie
i think i enjoy the hunt for meat as much as i do the supper.....and in the process, occasionally, i find the gem, the one which can't be put down and demands to be played. ahhh, now that is sweetness.