Which Burke to Buy?

[Whistling Pops]

I would like some opinions on which Burke a beginner might do well with. I already have a Burke Aluminum Narrow bore D and love it. I have been trying to decide which whistle to buy for the last two weeks and I noticed on his website today the price increased $20 today. Just my luck. But I am going to purchase another Burke anyway and would like some thoughts about various keys and opinion on brass vs. aluminum. Even though I have hovered around the forum for a few years, I have just started learning to play. I have a couple of whistles in C, several in D, and I have a Freeman Bb on the way. I am torn between getting a Burke brass narrow bore D or trying out a new key. Any suggestions from forum members would be greatly appreciated.

[srleslie]

I have a Low D Viper in brass and a Low G composite. Both are excellent whistles. They do take a piper's grip, though, which your D's may not. The brass gives a mellow, "smoky" sound, while the composite is brighter and clearer, like wood, but maintenance-free like plastic. I have an aluminum Low C on order, but can't comment yet on it.

If you play predominately Irish Trad then you know your D whistle handles the majority of tunes; a G takes on most of the rest. You pretty much have to decide what you want to play with the new instrument: I ordered a Low C simply because there's a dozen or so tunes that would work better on it, A minor tunes in particular.

[Unseen122]

I've had a Burke brass Bb for over 5 years and it is one of my favorite whistles that I have ever owned or tried, I think this model is a real winner. I have an aluminum low F of his as well which is quite nice too but IMO not quite as nice as the Bb, and I am able to play this whistle without using piper's grip but I got big hands and can play my (low) Bb flute without switching to piper's grip. In my experience with Burke whistles, I also had an aluminum high D session bore for a while, I have found that I prefer brass to aluminum. Of course that is just my own opinion. Brass is a bit warmer and more complex whereas aluminum is brighter and purer, it really comes down to personal preference only you can decide which suits you better. I have no experience with his composite whistles. I've heard his G whistles are quite nice too and if you wanted to get into low whistles this is a good starting point.

I think getting the same model you already own in a different material is a bit redundant; you may even want to try out the session bore model. If it were me with two whistles that were more or less the same except for material I would end up selling one but that is me and you may have a different experience.

[maki]

I keep seeing nice things said about the narrow bore composite d.

[Feadoggie]

Whistling Pops, Mike Burke makes good whistles. Here's my advice. Make a plan. Set aside the funds. Then buy one of each Burke in each key and each material. It may take you several years to complete the set but that's the only sensible way to buy Burke whistles. If you only buy one, you will want more. Ok, that's basically what I have done. Two dozen Burkes later there are still others to buy. You could skip that.

What music do you play? Do you play with others? Does your music need/require particular different keys? Is there a tune or recording that you want to play that your current whistles and keys do not support? Do you long to play those low moaning tones of the low whistle? Use that line of question to determine whether you need another key. If you don't then it's all down to "wants".

Concerning different materials and bores, I can tell you this. I play Burkes D's in all three materials and bores. Each has its own charm and panache. There is no significant difference between materials of the same design as far as play-ability and dynamics go. There is little tonal difference for a listener between the aluminum and brass Burkes, IME. The composites are noticeably more mellow. As a player the tone of the brass whistles seem a bit more round and ringing (I can't explain that means, you have to play them) compared to the aluminum.

My favorite Burke is a brass narrow bore high D but I play the aluminum narrow bore almost as much. I like the tone and feel of the low G and low F for practice in the garden - not too high, not too low, good size for the hands - YMMV. The Burke aluminum high E just plain makes me smile whenever I play it. The Burke low C is the only low C I've been happy with. Besides the high D's, my most frequently played Burkes are in order Low G, high C, low A, low D, B and low F. But that's based on repertoire I play.

You know, there aren't any bad Burke whistles. They are all darned nice instruments.

So, if you can't buy one of each ... get a dart board. Mark different segments with various models, keys and materials. Walk back ten paces. Place a blindfold over your eyes and let a dart fly. Buy whatever whistle the dart indicates. Repeat as often as funds allow.

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

[Whistling Pops]

Feadoggie, thanks for all the info.
I have just started and can only play a few common tunes now. However I spent eight years trying to play stringed instruments (guitar, mandolin, banjo) and could not get it done. My left arm and hand have been broken on 4 seperate occasions and I don't have the mobility in arm and wrist to manage the fretting. But fortunately, my fingers are still just as nimble as anyone else's. I have accomplished more progress in 3-4 weeks with whistle than I did in eight years of trying to play stringed instruments. Also, I am a big fan of whistle music. I could always whistle (with mouth) any song I had ever heard. I don't have anyone else to play with and I don't know if I will ever be good enough to. But that would be the ultimate achievement for me - to be able to play along with other musicians.
I have a really bad case of WHOAD! But then I have always been that way. I have owned as many as 7 guitars, 5 banjos, and 3 mandolins (and a fiddle) at one time and couldn't play any of them. I am in the process of selling some of those off so it frees up money to buy whistles. Abell is currently making me one in D.
I like the sound of low whistles but my hands are small. I have a Susato in low G but playing it is difficult because of the stretch. I will probably stick to high whistles until I can play decently. (hopefully within a year). I don't know which high keys are better than others for certain types of music but because I play alone at the present I assume all keys are useable for a song. I really appreciate your taking the time to reply. I knew you had several Burkes and I was hoping you would reply.

Also, thanks to everyone else who has replied or will reply

[maki]

Then buy one of each Burke in each key and each material.

That seams sound advice!
That is the path I'm persuing with Freemans whistle, which are a little more within my finacial reach.

[Feadoggie]

I spent eight years trying to play stringed instruments (guitar, mandolin, banjo) and could not get it done. My left arm and hand have been broken on 4 seperate occasions and I don't have the mobility in arm and wrist to manage the fretting.

Thanks for sharing that. Have you tried playing slide guitar? I've had a few friends that, for a variety of reasons, couldn't manage the fretting. Now they play dobro and lap steel and get along fine. I'm reminded of the story about Lowell George (Mothers of Invention, Little Feat) who injured his hand flying model airplanes such that he could not play standard guitar any longer. He played on to fame developing a signature sound as a slide guitarist. Here's some inspiration for you. There's more than one way to relieve a feline of its fur. I've played guitar for nearly 50 years, all types and most styles over the years. I really like the vocal quality of playing lap slide guitars. And you can set up a standard Spanish style guitar for lap playing to get started if you have not sold the last one yet. There's a very nice forum that supports lap slide playing too, should you like some social and technical support.

I like the sound of low whistles but my hands are small. I have a Susato in low G but playing it is difficult because of the stretch.

The Susato is not always a good indication of how the same key whistle will play from other whistle makers. Susatos tend to be big and bold and a little tougher to handle than some others. Mind you I do think the Susato low G is a nice whistle. Some would recommend buying whistles in successively lower keys in order to become acclimated to the stretch. Start with a low B or Bb. Sounds like you have one on the way. Then try a low A. A Burke low A might be a good choice. My aluminum Burke low A is as much as I could ask for in a whistle. Then after you are comfortable on the low A try a low G. And so on.

So maybe try Jerry's Bb and think about a Burke low A.

Feadoggie

[devondancer]

I do not want to hijack the thread, but thank you, Feadoggie, for that brilliant idea. I can no longer play my guitar as my left shoulder is not very mobile, but I might be able to manage the slide guitar, and I still have my guitar to try it out! Thank you! I can still whistle...

[Feadoggie]

Devondancer, so good to hear from you. And glad to hear you are still whistling.

To try slide guitar just raise the action a bit using a nut riser or extension. They look like this:

That keeps the strings away from the frets. Then you need a slide. That can be anything with a smooth surface. In the old days, we used pyrex pill bottles, but a piece of pipe works too. Commercial slides are available in brass, steel, glass and ceramics too. Tune the guitar to an open tuning like open D (D A D F# A D) and away you go. And just like the whistle, you can start with something like "Down by the Salley Gardens".

Cheers.

[devondancer]

Thank you, Feadoggie. I will try that today! Ro is bound to have something I can use for the slide, and will no doubt construct something for the extension, too...

[ecohawk]

Wow, a split thread where I feel I can add value in both places.

I agree wholeheartedly with Feadoggie's assessment for the slide guitar "conversion" with one qualifier. Do not put a raised nut on a guitar without a truss rod unless you want a severely bent neck. I have personal experience with this issue. Otherwise, play on...

Regarding Pops original question about Burke's and beginners, I also agree completely with the advice offered but should (as one who has spent the past three years emerging from the rank beginner to a decent intermediate player) add that there is no perfect whistle. Each maker has characteristics that distinguish their instruments but that doesn't make any of them better. Burke whistles are excellent but very pure in tone. I like them and own several. Material has very little to do with their sound and not nearly as much as head design. I've tested this over and over and so have others on this forum. There may be a perception that brass and aluminum sound different but you will find that opinions differ and often contradict each other when describing the difference. Some materials will require a change in design (wood isn't stable if milled to the thickness of brass tubing for instance), that may affect tone but it isn't the material itself that affects tone. Colin Goldie will play a series of his instruments for you over the phone which he made to be identical but they won't sound or play identically and they are all made from the exact same piece of tubing. This is because windway and blade tolerances are so tight that hand made instruments will always vary slightly.

Decide which qualities you seek before buying any whistle. You will find many threads on C&F where users have ranked instruments, actually makers, from purest to XXXest (I'm staying completely away from "chiffiest"). Head and hole design can affect responsiveness and playability so that's important too as you progress. Breath requirements vary greatly and can often be the single biggest determinant. Burke whistles require very little breath pressure to play consequently some say they are inefficient. Generally speaking, the Overton style made by several makers often require some push to play which usually translates to less breath wasted but a little more effort to play. Some players considered this push helpful as they can use it to help with transitions.

All this is personal opinion and preference. I don't agree with all that is stated above but IMHO you will definitely want to own several whistles in each key if you are serious about understanding. If you are playing alone you will quickly learn that you can pick any key that makes you happy and just play tunes/songs as though they were all in their original key such as on a traditional high D whistle. Some tunes/songs will sound much better in different keys and you will have to have other keys if you play with other musicians.

If I were a beginner and wanted to play only a Burke, I'd have an NBD and never look back.

good luck with your quest,
ecohawk

[Feadoggie]

I agree wholeheartedly with Feadoggie's assessment for the slide guitar "conversion" with one qualifier. Do not put a raised nut on a guitar without a truss rod unless you want a severely bent neck. I have personal experience with this issue. Otherwise, play on...

Right, issues may arise if you don't take care. But, note that I suggest an open D tuning which, since most n00b slide players won't go out and buy a special string set, results in reducing the "normal" string pressure on the neck and bridge. Don't tune to open E or, heaven forbid, high open G/dobro tuning. That's why God gave us the squareneck and the short scale lap steel. It's a balancing act.

Ecohawk, what do you play? Dobro, Weissenborn, electric lap steel, bottleneck? Inquiring minds want to know. PM me if you like.

I fear this thread will be banished to the string section. Sorry, Whistling Pops.

But at the heart of my suggestion was the thought that hand and arm injuries shouldn't mean that your guitar playing days are over. Lap style slide playing can be a relaxed way to make music, not unlike playing a mountain dulcimer with a noter which is another option in such circumstances.

Feadoggie

[maki]

Hey Whistling Pops!
Have you seen this?
NFI
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=86448

[sfwhistle]

Whistling Pops: There are several Burkes for sale on The Irish Flute Store site, including a NBD. Might be worth checking out. Good luck!