Which sounds best?

DrPhill · Post by **DrPhill** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:16 am

I would like to slim my whistle collection - ideally to one low and one high D. I have not managed yet, and I do not know if I ever will. I am down to two high D and four low D whistles.

To see if there are differences in the listeners experience I tried recording my low Ds and comparing them. To try to make this fair I recorded them on the same day with the same set up, the same distances from the mic etc, and minimal post-processing ('normalise' which amplifies the maximum signal to a standard value, and centres the signal around zero). No reverb, no equalisation, no compression. I even used coin tosses to randomise the order of the recordings. Swapping between the different whistles led to more mistakes in playing than I would like which is a little unfair but I could not think of a way to even that out without practicing on all the whistles or recording on different days.

If you would like to listen, comment, and play guessing games, then the file is here. I would be particularly interested in which whistle sounds best (to your ears), and in comparisons that use 'standard' terms like 'chiff', 'pure', 'flute-like' (I have no real grip on these terms).

In order to avoid listener bias and preference I will not tell you which whistles are which until the thread peters out a bit.

Also note that this is not an absolute comparison - it is only one tune, biased towards the upper end of the whistle range, and heavily biased by my style and competence (or lack thereof). Oh, and please excuse my playing

.

Post by **benhall.1** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:31 am

Hi Phill

I won't be able to get to listen to these clips today. I think the idea is commendable in a way. However, I would advise against slimming down to just one high D (I haven't got any feeling either way regarding low Ds - one of those would probably be enough). My reason for saying this is from my own experience. My favourite high D is my Reyburn, but there are sessions where it is simply too loud. Then I swap to my Cillian O'Briain, which has plenty of volume for almost any session but never overwhelms. I think it's difficult to find just one for everywhere, although, in my case, if push came to shove, it would be the O'Briain.

Still a useful survey, mind.

riverman · Post by **riverman** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:02 am

I voted one and two but I can't find a thing wrong with any of the whistle examples. I think you could play any of them for the rest of your life.

Miragliuolo · Post by **Miragliuolo** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:19 pm

I liked number 3 the best. Can't say exactly why, it
just sounded the most pleasing to my ears.

Mike

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:25 am

All 4 whistles sound perfectly acceptable to me. And they're more similar than different.

#3 is best. It has a bit of chirp and bite, and nice full, round sound. Very expressive.

#1 is also nice. A bit smoother than #3, but similar character.

#2 is a bit bland and thin, but maybe it wants more air than you are giving it.

#4 is unfocused, and has a bit of Susato-y undertone that sounds like it isn't quite tamed.

hoopy mike · Post by **hoopy mike** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:59 am

I voted for #1, but they all have their merits. I wondered about the intonation on #2 in a few places - have you run the samples through Flutini? I may have dozed off by #4. I wondered if #1 and #3 were the same whistle.

DrPhill · Post by **DrPhill** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:55 am

Some very interesting comments. Keep them coming. I was surprised not only by the similarity in sound but by the differences in the recorded waveforms (should I post an image?). I should have recorded a shorter piece for each whistle as the total makes tedious listening, sorry.
One interesting thing I did was play around with post-processing. I think that it quickly muddies the difference between the recordings.

hoopy mike wrote:I voted for #1, but they all have their merits. I wondered about the intonation on #2 in a few places - have you run the samples through Flutini? I may have dozed off by #4. I wondered if #1 and #3 were the same whistle.

That was on my original toDo list, but I forgot it. I have done it now. Here is the Flutini output four recordings in order:

I must have whistle3 slightly flat and whistle4 very flat. I tend to look at the spread of the tuning rather that the actual pitch.

Whistle1: 18 cents.
Whistle2: 36 cents, but only 23 if you drop out the very flat G (which may be my fault).
Whistle3: 18 cents.
Whistle4: 19 cents.

What is a reasonable expectation for tuning from a whistle?

Ian Parfitt · Post by **Ian Parfitt** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:17 am

As mentioned above all 4 were fine.

I voted number 1 first and number 3 second.

A close run race.

No 1 remined me of the whistle played in River Dance and number 2 a number played on Utube.

hoopy mike · Post by **hoopy mike** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:21 am

DrPhill wrote:What is a reasonable expectation for tuning from a whistle?

It depends who is listening.

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:44 am

I think all sound pretty good but I like number 1 the best. If I listened again I might change my mind.

I hope we will be told the brand of each whistle.

Ron

narrowdog · Post by **narrowdog** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:15 am

I voted for #3 has that little bit edge to it.
Lovely tune to pick, thanks

DrPhill · Post by **DrPhill** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:16 am

It seems that voting has ended, so I will reveal the whistles.

Thank you to all who voted. It is interesting to see that the listeners experience is far less varied than the players - something alluded to here before by PanCelticPiper and probably others. These whistles seem vastly different from each other whilst playing. I think my style and competence (such as maybe

) has a large influence on the whistle, and so it is important to get a whistle that suits my style, but more important to practice and improve.

That said, MTGuru's perceptive analysis showed me that there are significant audible differences between whistles and that reassures me that there is some merit in seeking the best whistle for my style.

Please also remember that this is a simplistic, non-scientific bit of fun, with one player and one tune. Do not read too much into it.

The whistles:

* Copeland: It was reassuring to see that the Copeland came out on top - maybe the quality shows, or maybe it got lucky with first position and people's ears were getting jaded by the end. The Copeland is probably my least played whistle, but only because I am reluctant to take it to the pub, where magpies may lurk (oooooh pretty shiny thing must have it......). It is a delight to play.
* Onyx by Walt Sweet: As MTGuru detected, this whistle takes more air than I like to give, especially at the top of the second octave. I have developed techniques for controlling the air flow (maintaining speed with reduced volume) but this whistle does not do well with them. This is the whistle that I have played least, though I have played it constantly as my main whistle for more than a month. This whistle has great potential that I have not evoked.
* Overton by Colin Goldie: Probably my current favourite whistle. It has plenty of 'back-pressure' which helps me to be expressive, and, of course, allows me longer passages. I deliberately biased the test against this whistle by choosing a tune with no low notes. This whistle would have eclipsed all the others there. I always found it hard to play the high notes sweetly on this whistle, but maybe I am improving. My playing did not seem a handicap in this test.
* Dixon Tapered bore tunable: As the lowest cost whistle here I reckon this did very well. It is the only mass-produced whistle too. It requires a lot of air, but seems easier to tame than the Onyx. Maybe I should try the Susato 'O-ring' tweak.

hoopy mike · Post by **hoopy mike** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:46 am

Thanks for setting up the game, Phil. Do you have rough price tags for the four whistles? Or to answer my own question, I looked up the Onyx online and came up with a price of $300, Goldie/Overtons seem to be around 250 euros, Dixon £70-110 depending on the slide material, Copeland low D around $300...

DrPhill · Post by **DrPhill** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:21 pm

hoopy mike wrote:Thanks for setting up the game, Phil. Do you have rough price tags for the four whistles? Or to answer my own question, I looked up the Onyx online and came up with a price of $300, Goldie/Overtons seem to be around 250 euros, Dixon £70-110 depending on the slide material, Copeland low D around $300...

Maybe we were thinking along the same line...... as a bit of fun I divided the percentage score by the relative cost to get a value-for-money rating. The costs are UK based, and at least one is a guess (though a little higher than your guess). The Copeland and Onyx would likely cost less in the US, the Dixon and Goldie more.

Code: Select all

 %	cost	%/cost
 47	1000	0.047
 05	 250	0.020	
 37	 225	0.164
 11	  70	0.157

Of course these figures are largely meaningless - the audience appreciation figures only tell part of the story. You would have to factor in player appreciation, and the fact that audiences do not judge the playing on the instrument's value-for-money rating.

Also, the Onyx, though it fares badly in this table, is the only whistle here that is in three parts, robust, waterproof, care-free. It makes a great back-pack whistle.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:02 pm

I'm not surprised I picked the Goldie/Overton. It's the classic low whistle sound. Very rich and expressive. It's the one I own and play (when I rarely play low D).

My second choice Copeland is not a suprise either. Hey, I have good taste.

The others ... Meh. Why bother ...

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