another Gen tweak post

[retired]

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:34 pm
Posts: 32
I love to tinker so I bought 4 gen Bb whistles and went at it using the tweaking info on C&F. For starters one of the whistles sounded really good untouched, the second was ok, the third a little too raspy for me and the 4th fagetaboutit! So I did the various tweaks and I can't say I noticed any positive change to these 4 whistles. What I did notice was that the best one changed with filling in the cavity. The sound went from a kind of hollow mid-range with a little more highs to a more mid-range fatness, like going from a strat to a Les Paul. I took the wax back out. I prefer it without the wax. There was no stray plastic in any of the fipples and the finish of all of them looked pretty smooth. It was easy to get the fipples off by just holding them under a running hot water faucet. While monkeying around I blew through the fipples without a tube and at low pressure before they would whistle, the better ones were smoother and had less shrill than the worst one. So for $40 I wound up with 2 I can enjoy and two extra tubes. I compared the 2 good ones with a Jerry tweaked and a Tony D. tweaked, and I found the 2 tweaked whistles to be very similar to each other both in sound and design. They sounded fatter and a bit easier to play with a bit less volume in the lower octave, and maybe a bit smoother in the upper octave. The 2 good ones I bought untweaked have a stronger bell note in the lower octave, are a little hollower sounding and are less tolerant of mistakes, maybe a bit more chiffy. I prefer the untweaked ones outdoors where I can lean into the stronger lower octave. They all have a little raspiness to them. I'd love to get my hands one one without the raspiness but with all the other good qualities. Amazing the trouble you can get into with too much time on your hands ! --- Retired.

OOPS - spoke too soon. The whistles without the cavity filled were just too difficult to control after awhile so I filled the cavities and now they're more stable. I noticed that if I made sure the cavity filler had a smooth surface it helped the sound. As far as I can see now the only difference between my Gens and Jerry & Tommy's is they have added material to the lip to lower and extend it. That would make the window shorter and weaken the lower octave, while putting the lip in a better position if it were off to begin with. So I'm wondering about those occasionally found real good old Gens, they wouldn't have the cavity filled, what is it about their construction that makes them unique ?

[Mr.Gumby]

The re-design Generation did in the early eighties seems to have aimed at giving them a bit more volume. As you win some you loose some so the tonality of the whistle changed slightly. Old Generations were not in any way magically better or more consistent than today's, they were different.

A lot of perceived issues and benefits live in the mind of the beholder, and are deeply influenced by their playing skills. I have, for example, yet to be convinced of any benefits to a whistle's playability following from the filling of the cavity. You're right when you say some tweakers focus the sound to a narrower band, on the other hand tweaked whistles, even done by the same hands, are not all equal and can still yield croaky clunkers and fair to middling ones side by side with lovely and sweet playing specimen so the 'try before you buy and pick out the ones that suit you best' caveat is still fully operational.

[straycat82]

Not sure if your terminology is referring to the same thing as I am but that "hollowness" is something I actually look for in a whistle. It is difficult to describe but I think it has something to do with being able to hear some of the acoustics within the tube. Whistles that are really pure typically turn me off. I also don't like whistles that sound too breathy and get weaker in the second register. Somewhere in-between those two is a nice balance. I like a nice strong low end and a high end that sings but isn't shrill -- that seems to come with the territory of the hollow sound (as I would call it).

[cunparis]

I prefer the untweaked ones outdoors where I can lean into the stronger lower octave. They all have a little raspiness to them. I'd love to get my hands one one without the raspiness but with all the other good qualities. Amazing the trouble you can get into with too much time on your hands ! --- Retired.
..
So I'm wondering about those occasionally found real good old Gens, they wouldn't have the cavity filled, what is it about their construction that makes them unique ?

Any chance you could make a short recording playing the same song on each one? It'd be interesting to see how different they sound.

[retired]

In the first paragraph - I wrote 'Tony D' - that should be 'Tommy D'.
Straycat2 - I also value the hollowness - like a haunting sound.
Cunparis - sorry I don't have a mike (saved by the bell !)
I'm curious about who designed the Generation whistles, and if they designed others. For an inexpensive whistle the Bb is hard to beat.

[Tommy]

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:34 pm
Posts: 32
So I'm wondering about those occasionally found real good old Gens, they wouldn't have the cavity filled, what is it about their construction that makes them unique ?

One part of tweaking whistles I have not read here in a long time is about the inconsistent size/shape of the wind way and exit.

It appears to me that the Feadog has a tapered wind way, but I am not sure they do that to enhance the whistle. Could be it is made that way for ease in removing it from the mold.

Generation whistles have a more straight through wind way.

The plastic does not cool at the same rate and on some whistles that play not so well viewing the end of the wind way at the exit it can be seen that one side is taller. If it is not visible you could measure it it with diy fleer gauges.
Filing to make it the same size would make the total exit larger and it could play worse.

Some where in the C&F archives there is a thread about how to heat the wind way exit then mash it to be evan and or smaller.

Another method is to fix a piece of thin plastic to the roof or floor of the wind way.

Here is a link viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50697&hilit with info on how to turn one of your extra Bb tone tubes into a key of B whistle.

[AvienMael]

Not sure if your terminology is referring to the same thing as I am but that "hollowness" is something I actually look for in a whistle. It is difficult to describe but I think it has something to do with being able to hear some of the acoustics within the tube. Whistles that are really pure typically turn me off. I also don't like whistles that sound too breathy and get weaker in the second register. Somewhere in-between those two is a nice balance. I like a nice strong low end and a high end that sings but isn't shrill -- that seems to come with the territory of the hollow sound (as I would call it).

My sentiments exactly. I also agree with Mr. Gumby's point on filling the cavity.

Tweaking a whistle is something that is meant to bring out certain characteristics in the way it sounds and/or plays, it isn't really done to transform the whistle into something completely different from what you started with. Spontaneous whistle reconstruction is more likely to ruin a perfectly good whistle than "fix" it.