Orchestra & Whistle suggestions

[MTGuru]

Wow... on a C whistle that concert High E is going to be quite a screamer!!

IIRC, the Corigliano suite I mentioned above also goes up into the whistle stratosphere. What is it about these composers?

[loowitt]

I had my first lesson yesterday. Very interesting.

1. The composer wrote a whistle part but not really in a whistle style.

2. It's always interesting going to fundamentals for an instrument. Relaxed embouchure, straight fingers, and basic finger movement. It was rather like an Alexander Technique lesson.

[cboody]

Wow... on a C whistle that concert High E is going to be quite a screamer!!

IIRC, the Corigliano suite I mentioned above also goes up into the whistle stratosphere. What is it about these composers?

Ha! You ought to see what folks write for Hammered Dulcimer!

[jemtheflute]

On my old Gen C whistle the lower 3rd 8ve is actually very readily accessible and quite sweet/pleasant sounding. No probs with the high E and F# fingerings (D terms, D and E real pitch). It is also plenty "loud" enough - though of course if the lower 1st 8ve is needed that would be pretty inaudible without amplification. I also have a Carey Parks Everywhistle with a C body and that's quite good up there too, maybe a bit less so than the Gen, and it is only a little stronger than that at the bottom of the tessitura.

BTW, high E (D terms, real pitch D on a C whistle) will finger either xxo oxx or xxo xxo - see which is best on the whistle you end up using. Similarly, high F# (your real pitch E) will be one of xox xox, xxx xox or xox xxx. The high D (C) below them will be either oxx ooo or oxx xxx - the first is the standard fingering, but on some whistles the second can sound better, and even if one of them sounds inferior to the other, facility of fingering changes and/or whether the sound will switch over cleanly/readily may be practical considerations in choosing which fingering to use in a given context.

I'd be very interested to see the actual part you have to play!

[pancelticpiper]

Yeh Jem on my 30-year-old Generation C, that's the best C I've ever played at any price, those notes are screamers. But, playing over a full orchestra they might be OK.

It's an example of composers not really being familiar with the instrument they're writing for, and writing inappropriate notes and/or range.

I run into this stuff all the time, in studio work, on the uilleann pipes.

Bach wrote for violin and organ but he PLAYED those instruments and knew their exact character and possiblities!

The "trad" player is constantly confronted with parts written by people who haven't a clue about the instruments they're writing for. (I'm talking about TV/film/spot composers writing parts for whistle and uilleann pipes.)

[JackCampin]

Unless the orchestra is using a very weird pitch standard, you don't need the whistle tunable. Pitch is flexible enough by varying breath pressure. If the arranger wanted the sound of a whistle, they probably expected something like a Clarke, iffy intonation and all.

[MTGuru]

I'd say it depends on the whistle, Jack. Whistles can vary considerably in what the maker or manufacturer regards as the normative breath pressure for the instrument, which they presumably use as their standard for intonation and voicing. I've tried whistles that needed to be pulled way out or pushed way in to meet my expectations, which were apparently not the maker's. And the ability to vary breath pitch can also be quite varied, depending on the width and slope of the breath plateau. While I agree that some non-tunables can be perfectly fine, a tunable simply puts more control over these characteristics into the player's hands.

[jemtheflute]

And then, I think (pace what MTG just wrote) just about all whistles, mass or craft produced, are designed for A=440, but a lot of orchestras (especially in the US) are now playing significantly sharp of that (again.... and rising - don't they know their history?!?!). And see also what the OP wrote above about the composer's approach (in this case) to the whistle - alright, it isn't a detailed explanation, but I think we get the drift - the composer doesn't really understand the instrument, beyond maybe a textbook description of its range - has probably never heard (of) a Clarke's or realise that intonation may not fit orchestral expectations.....

[cowtime]

Really really interesting thread y'all. I would love to play a whistle part with the community orchestra I play with. That would be great fun, but as it is, I have a hard enough time getting a decent oboe part, as in..

It's an example of composers not really being familiar with the instrument they're writing for, and writing inappropriate notes and/or range.

[loowitt]

Well, I have found out that the Broadway shows Wicked and Miss Saigon both call for Penny Whistle.

[cboody]

Also Quilters and The Secret Garden.

[highland-piper]

And then, I think (pace what MTG just wrote) just about all whistles, mass or craft produced, are designed for A=440, but a lot of orchestras (especially in the US) are now playing significantly sharp of that

Hmmm. Of the dozen or so orchestras my wife has played in over the past decade, all have been at 440. None of them are orchestras you might have heard of, unless you live in the Southeast USA. Is that the big, professional orchestras that are pushing the pitch?

[jemtheflute]

Is that the big, professional orchestras that are pushing the pitch?

Apparently, from what I've read. Germany is also particularly prone to this, I gather. If you go into any mainstream Bohm flute selling music store/flute specialist or check out the big modern flute makers websites, you will see that most classical concert flutes (including student models) are now being built at A=442, regardless of the fact that most school, youth and amateur ensembles still play at 440. Of course, 2 Hz is only a very slight pull-out of the head-joint, and most listeners' ears can't tell the difference... but they make all their fuss about "improved", accurately tuned scales" and then build and sell flutes not at the "standard" pitch, so the player is immediately going to have to compromise that scale intonation!!!!! FWIW, I don't get the impression, though I haven't checked, that oboes and clarinets are being similarly built to 442......

[s1m0n]

It's an example of composers not really being familiar with the instrument they're writing for, and writing inappropriate notes and/or range.

A universal experience, I suspect. Liam O'Flynn made the same complaint about Shaun Davey's Brendan Suite, even though it was written specifically with him in mind.