Serpent Whistle Review

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:41 pm

Wonderful comments, all! Tyghress, thanks for coming in! Loren, sorry about the knee. Me, too, probably similar reason (martial arts). Lots of glucosamine sulfate later, it's better, but still not great.

I like the Delrin idea, but affixing it is problematic. I hate glues and resins, as so many are allergic to them, and their quality is rather uneven. The brass, I can silver-braze in place. I'm going to see about maybe boring the fipple plug out some, to remove excess material. That should lower the weight at the head end. Also love the idea of curving the plug! You non-machinists come up with these ideas which are absolutely wonderful, and cause nightmares for we who have to implement them! What fun!

The Brass Serpent (Hereinafter known as "BS"

) qualifies nicely as a "narrow bore" whistle. That means it's gonna be quieter, especially in the low register. I have to admit that's not high on my "desirable characteristics" list. So I'm going to make a fatter variety, too, and will offer a choice.

I'm going to drop out of the discussion now, lest I seem overtly advertising. If someone has a question not answered here, please feel free to email me.

Once again, much, much gratitude to JessieK and Tyghress for their reviews. Ladies, if you do find that you would like a tunable production BS whistle,

just let me know, and you shall have one.
Blessings to you all,
Bill Whedon

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:09 pm

You'll find that Delrin is a trademark name the generic name is Acetal.

Here is a material guide on it [url]hhttp://www.ridoutplastics.com/accel.html[/url] and http://www.cityplastics.com.au/pdf/acetal%20msds.pdf

It appears that Delrin can give off formaldeyhyde it heated over 200 degrees F. Use proper ventilation when milling and turning.

At normal temperatures, there is no recorded toxicity.

I drill small gouges in the bottoms of Delrin blocks and the same on the mating surface of the pipe inside. Glues like Elmers Polyurethane glue or Gorilla Glue Expand into the milled gouges to provide a locking medium between the pipe and the block.

Another alternative is to pin the underside. Only I don't like doing that.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:15 pm

On 2002-11-21 23:09, Daniel_Bingamon wrote:
Another alternative is to pin the underside. Only I don't like doing that.

Hmm... Why? It doesn't have to look bad, and may help future servicing, or revoicing?

[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-21 23:16 ]

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:16 pm

Thanks, Daniel. Think I'll stick with brass, and silver brazing! The flux fumes are bad 'nuff without formaldehyde added to the mix!
Cheers,

Serp

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:33 pm

Copeland uses pinned delrin and I think it's extremely classy. But nobody is trying to turn Bill Whedon into Michael Copeland. Stick to what makes you comfortable.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:15 am

I use Delrin fipple plugs, and find it a terrific material to work with. If you fit the plug carefully and snugly, you need very little adhesive to hold it in place. I use 5 minute epoxy, which works just fine. The fixation is not totally rock hard, so if I ever do need to remove a plug, I can knock it out with a dowel and mallet.
I'm waiting for an evaluation BS, and will chime in when I have a chance to test it.

Vinny · Post by **Vinny** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:10 am

Hey Jessie,

Not that it needed saying again, but very nice review. At the end I really felt like I had a good understanding of the whistle. Thank you.

Bill, sounds like you're on a good track. Keep "pluggin'" away

Vinny

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:20 am

Stacey (Alba whistles) sent me a sample of a very tough machineable and glue-able fipple material made, apparently, of resin and cotton fiber. I have tried it, and it works nicely. Only problem is, it doesn't stand up to heat (same as any other plastic), and in the very near future, many of my whistles are going into a final process that takes them to something over 1000F for a significant time. It won't melt the brass or the silver solder, but it would simply burn up anything like wood or plastic. And, since the whistle must be complete before the process takes place, I'm kind of stuck with metal for the fipple plug.

I've found that I can bore the plugs out and solder on caps, but that is very labor-intensive, and doesn't really reduce the weight that much - only about a quarter-ounce - 6.25% of the total weight. I'm sure there are other solutions, but at the moment, I'm having to concentrate on issues of uniformity of product and finish, so the fipple thing will remain on the back burner for a while.

Maybe I should rename the whistles "Fat-Boy"!

Cheers,
Bill Whedon

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:35 am

Maybe I should rename the whistles "Fat-Boy"!

Or just heavy-metal?

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 10:46 am

On 2002-11-22 09:35, Tony wrote:

Or just heavy-metal?

ooo|||||ooo
m/^___^m/
oooo|oo/oo
ooo___/ooo
ooooo|ooooo
ooooo|ooooo
oooo___oooo
oo_/ooo_ooo

(ignore the o's. It wouldn't line up right without them)

[ This Message was edited by: TelegramSam on 2002-11-22 11:53 ]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:05 am

Great stuff Jessie.
Now maybe if you could just get Loren to send you the Low D I sent him, you could try your hand at that.As I feel he is just stalling, and whats the point of sending a whistle for review a not getting one, good or bad?

Wizz

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: wizzy on 2002-11-22 12:07 ]

Michael Sullivan · Post by **Michael Sullivan** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:28 am

Serpent,

What do you do to them that they have to get so hot?

I have to admit the idea of an all-metal whistle is more attractive than one with plastic elements. Plastic just doesn't seem as natural or as cool.

Michael

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:42 am

While yer asking these questions:

What makes one salivate more, metal or delrin? It seems like delrin makes me do so more but it may be just an individual chemistry thing.

And along the same lines, what dehydrates your lips more? When I get really lucky, I have enough time to practice until my lips start to hurt. I play on just Burkes with delrin and I have wondered about that as well.

i couldnt help but notice that Bill wants to superheat while just a week or two ago we were gonna cryo-treat em....

Yin and yang I reckon.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:27 pm

Stacey (Alba whistles) sent me a sample of a very tough machineable and glue-able fipple material made, apparently, of resin and cotton fiber. I have tried it, and it works nicely. Only problem is, it doesn't stand up to heat (same as any other plastic), and in the very near future, many of my whistles are going into a final process that takes them to something over 1000F for a significant time

The fiber and resin is probably phenolic, is it an almost creamy orange color?

1000F, sounds like you're heat treating.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:38 pm

Nah... Serp' just read that some real hot whistlers actually sit on their instrument before playing or between sets. He doesn't want them to bend the notes while doing so