transposing question

[tucson_whistler]

hi,

so i had a transposing question i was wondering about... i really like Bill Ochs book; it helped me alot. anyway, i learned the song the quakers wife out of it, and really like playing it.

what i was wondering was... if i play it on a c whistle, do i finger c nat? meaning, if i play this on a d whistle:

GAB D BC BA GAB D D E G

then would i play this on a c whistle?

FGA C AB AG FGA C C D F

or would it be:

FGA C ABb AG FGA C C D F

basically, i half-hole the B tonehole on a D whistle (easier for me than cross-fingering, here) to get the C nat; so do i keep the same fingering on a C whistle (and get a Bb?) or do i just blow it with out half-holing? that would change the key, wouldn't it? but at the same time, it seems weird to half-hole to get a Bb on a C whistle...

???

thanks,
eric

[Denny]

D on the left
C on the right

Code: Select all

D  XXX XXX C
E  XXX XXO D
F# XXX XOO E
G  XXX OOO F
A  XXO OOO G
B  XOO OOO A
C# OOO OOO B

so I think that you are asking for
G XXO OOO
A XOO OOO
B OOO OOO

D XXX XXO
B OOO OOO
C XXX XXX

B OOO OOO
A XOO OOO


note: it is an hour past my bet time.....I could be soooo wrong!

[hans]

Whistles are transposing instruments.
So if you keep using the same fingering, same half-holing, cross fingering etc, but play the music on a different whistle key, it is automatically transposed to a new key.
Cnat on a D whistle becomes Bb on a C whistle.
But Denny's chart covered that.

The nice thing about such automatic transposing is that you don't need to think about the note names, i.e. what are the notes in the scale.

[tucson_whistler]

D on the left
C on the right

Code: Select all

D  XXX XXX C
E  XXX XXO D
F# XXX XOO E
G  XXX OOO F
A  XXO OOO G
B  XOO OOO A
C# OOO OOO B

note: it is an hour past my bet time.....I could be soooo wrong!

me too. i spent a lot of time making sure that the notes i wrote down were correct, but then i forgot to mark the c#. ah veh.

anyway, thanks, love the chart.... but the last line should be:

C 0XX 000 Bb

right?

it sounds right to play it that way, like i said though, it just seems weird to be half-holing to get flats on a c whistle--which doesn't have any "built in" flats or sharps. in other words, to half-hole (or cross finger) on a d whistle seems natural--because it has "built in" an f# and a c#. or even to half-hole (or cross finger) on a g whistle to get the f#--since it has the c# already.

it's just part of the fact that i don't understand (even unconsciously) the whole circle of fifths thing... someday

thanks,
eric

[Denny]

nope B nat....one half step below an octave above where ya started (C# is 1/2 down from D....B is from C)

besides there ain't no # or b in C

a D plays in D & G (or C natural is the first flatted)
a C plays in C & F (do the math )

or the matching fingerings on a C are one full step (or two 1/2 steps) below what the D is

[tucson_whistler]

ok, i think maybe i'm not being clear...

if i play:

0xx 000

on my d whistle to get a c nat; which is in the song i mentioned, then with the same fingering, what note will i get on a c whistle?

[Denny]

ah, so sorry.....it was the "last line should be" bit that threw me

yes if OXX OOO is a c natural on a D then it would be a Bb on a C
(hence he key of F for a C or G for a D)

one more flat being the same as one less sharp


anyone dizzy yet?

[MTGuru]

anyone dizzy yet?

25 words or less ...

[Denny]

anyone dizzy yet?

25 words or less ...

too verbose? moi?

[Tommy]

Here is a link to a chart that may be helpful.
http://www.thewhistleshop.com/misc/fingering.htm

[walrii]

Tucson, on the D whistle, you are playing this tune in G. G has only one sharp, F# and the C# on your D whistle is flattened to Cnat by half-holing the top hole or playing oxx ooo. On a C whiste, you will play the tune in F, which has one flat, Bb. You get Bb on a C whistle by half-holing the top hole or playing oxx ooo. If you truly want to play the tune in C, get a G whistle and use the same fingerings as above. Hope this helps.

[talasiga]

I have not grasped why this confuses people:

if
OOO OOO is x
and
XOO OOO is x-1
then the point half way between them at
OXX OOO is x-half

[hans]

I have not grasped why this confuses people:

if
OOO OOO is x
and
XOO OOO is x-1
then the point half way between them at
OXX OOO is x-half

Lovely how confusion can be propagated!
It looks so deceptively mathematical!
But (x + x-1)/2 does not equal x/2, unless x=1.
So in your expression x can neither be a length nor a frequency.
And if x is a note name, like C or D, what on earth is D-half?

What you really mean, I assume, is this, avoiding algebra:
Halfway of going down a scale one full tone step is half a full tone step, i.e. a semi tone.

[talasiga]

What you really mean, I assume, is this, avoiding algebra:
Halfway of going down a scale one full tone step is half a full tone step, i.e. a semi tone.

where your one full tone = 1
and using x to denote OOO OOO
and where XOO OOO = x - 1
therefore
where half way point = 0XX OOO
then
OXX OOO = x - half
(noting that half of a tone = your semi tone)

[hans]

(at this point we can happily digress into the topic of who owns tones and semi tones, or, better, start a lengthy discourse about the differences of equally tempered and the different kinds of just intoned semi tones)