transposing question

[NicoMoreno]

If you played the tune the same way you normally would on a D whistle, but just picked up the C whistle instead, than you were lowering it by a single tone, to the key of F. In other words if you covered the same holes in the same order, you were playing with the same fingering.

As for understanding intervals and the rest: Learn some music theory! (not being glib, honest! You should have a teacher for it, I think, or you'll probably get lost.)

The rest is just music theory

Take the D scale: DEF#GABc#d
The interval between D and E is one tone. The interval between E and F# is also one tone. The interval between F# and G is a semi-tone (aka half a tone).
The intervals in order are: TTSTTTS (T = tone, S = semitone) A tone is also referred to as a major second interval.

Moving to larger intervals:
D to F# is known as a major third.
D to G is known as a perfect fourth. (Shortened to fourth as a matter of speed)
D to A is known as a perfect fifth. (Shortened to fifth etc)
D to B is known as a major sixth.
D to c# is known as a major seventh.
D to d is known as an octave.

So, if you were taking a tune and playing it in G on a D whistle, and wanted to instead play it in D, you would have to drop the tune down a fourth. That is, play every note a perfect fourth lower than normal.

Some other intervals that you'll likely encounter in your beginning stages of whistling:
D to F is known as a minor third.
D to c is known as a minor sixth.

Ok, and just for the hell of it here's the same thing with the G scale, dropping the perfect:
G to A = maj 2nd
G to B = maj 3rd
G to c = 4th
G to d = 5th
G to e = maj 6th
G to f# = maj 7th
G to g = octave

And now D going the other way around:
d to c# = minor 2nd
d to B = minor 3rd
d to A = 4th
d to G = fifth
d to F# = minor 6th
d to E = minor 7th
Phew, that's probably enough for now.

[BoneQuint]

If the original tune has no accidentals in it, then whatever key you transpose it into, it still won't have any accidentals. That is, if your original tune is in G, and only uses the notes in the G scale, G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G, then transposing it to C will only use the notes in the C scale, C-D-E-F-G-A-B. The fact that you have to half-hole on a D whistle to get the C-natural has nothing to do with it.

The best way to answer this question is to try some transposing yourself. Write it out. Play with it.

The most basic definition of transposing is that you're moving every note in the tune by the same number of half steps. So a "G" in your tune in G would become a "C" if you played the tune in C, obviously. Count half steps up from G: G#, A, A#, B, C - 5 half steps. (You have to know there's no B#/Cb, just as there's no E#/Fb). So moving every note in the tune up by 5 half steps will transpose it from G to C. You can always use that as a double check if you're transposing and get confused. Accidentals work the same way - if you had a F natural in a G tune, count up by 5 half steps: F#, G, G#, A, A# (or Bb). So if you transpose your tune in G to C, the only time you'll need a Bb is if there was an F-natural in the original.

So a C whistle automatically plays everything two half-steps lower than it would sound with the same fingering on a D whistle - count up from C: C# - D. So to play a tune in C on a C whistle, you take the sheet music in C, and move everything up by two half steps (since the whistle will move them down again by two). You'll get the tune in D. The reason there will now be F#s and C#s in the tune is because there's no E# and B# (as noted above).

You can use this to answer your original question -- how to play tune written in G in C on a C whistle? First transpose to C: move every note up 5 half steps. Then the C whistle will play two half steps lower, so add two more to offset that. Final transposition method: move all notes up 7 half steps. Play the resulting score on your C whistle, and it'll sound in C.

This sounds tedious, but after you do it a handful of times, the patterns become pretty obvious. The advantage of this method is that you have to memorize very little: only the fact that you skip straight from E to F (there's no E#) and from B to C (there's no B#). If you forget anything else, just go back and count half steps. You don't have to know if the tune's major or minor, what a fourth or fifth or augmented or diminished or perfect means, how many sharps or flats are in the key signature, or any of that stuff. Those are useful things to know, but they can come with time and experience and the need to communicate them with other people.

[tucson_whistler]

Learn some music theory! (not being glib, honest! You should have a teacher for it, I think, or you'll probably get lost.)

what do you think i'm paying you guys for.

kidding! no, thanks, really for your time. i really appreciate it.

i think i've learned a lot from reading these posts; i'm not going to be there yet, but i'll keep working on everything you've suggested. i'm looking for a flute teacher, who i will probably start to pester with these kinds of questions. but for now, i live in bowie, az (rambo is also from here; population in July 2007: 2,465 and there's a noticeable dirth of music and/or ITM teachers.

so you guys are helping me a lot.

thanks,
eric

[Denny]

there is a current thread in the pub that might tie in for ya

Chord Scale..a theory question please ..

then there's Google http://www.google.com/search?q=music+theory

[tucson_whistler]

there is a current thread in the pub that might tie in for ya

Chord Scale..a theory question please ..

then there's Google http://www.google.com/search?q=music+theory

ok, chords are a wholly different animal, but that ruler analogy thing is cool. that really makes it easy to understand... thx.

[Denny]

not either

[tucson_whistler]

i guess i'll have to get a guitar along with my piano

[Tommy]

i looked at the fingering chart that Tommy posted a link to though (thanks!) and that, along with what you said about intervals, is making sense to me. there's the Bb i was talking about, right there on the sheet. and if i want to put it in the key of c, i just slide over 4(1/2) spots and there's the notes i was looking for.
ok.. ok... don't worry, i'm alright now.

There is another chart available that is in almost the same format. It came with your Susato whistle. You do have a Susato, right? I don't know if the Susato chart can be found on line but if you PM me with an address I will send you a copy. Both charts side by side should give you insight to whistle transposing. And they are cheaper, and more easy to carry then a grand piano.


Wow, the world of whistles is exciting.

[Denny]

they are cheaper, and more easy to carry then a grand piano.

ack!! I've been tryin' on a 2 1/2 octave casio!!

[Tommy]

they are cheaper, and more easy to carry then a grand piano.

ack!! I've been tryin' on a 2 1/2 octave casio!!

If a casio works for you then you should have one. There is a fellow at the local session that packs one in. I enjoy hearing it when he puts it on old time piano mode. Sounds like the real thing.

[talasiga]

there is a current thread in the pub that might tie in for ya

Chord Scale..a theory question please ..

then there's Google http://www.google.com/search?q=music+theory

ok, chords are a wholly different animal, but that ruler analogy thing is cool. that really makes it easy to understand... thx.

sigh of relief .....
finally there is something I did that is helpful to you.

[tucson_whistler]

[quote="Tommy"]There is another chart available that is in almost the same format. It came with your Susato whistle. You do have a Susato, right? I don't know if the Susato chart can be found on line but if you PM me with an address I will send you a copy. Both charts side by side should give you insight to whistle transposing. And they are cheaper, and more easy to carry then a grand piano.[quote]

yes, i do have one. it's the most useful thing i've had to help me so far, up until this discussion.

Mr. Talasiga, everything you said was helpful; thanks so much for all the responses--especially the last few.

thanks everybody!
eric