For an octave lower than whistle, low D or a flute?

[Fifthtry]

I'm new to whistle and have really enjoyed learning Celtic tunes. I'd like to investigate playing an octave lower, which can be done with a low D whistle or with a flute. What are the considerations when choosing between those two choices?

Thanks for any wisdom.

John

[hoopy mike]

Try a Dixon polymer low D flute/whistle combo. That way you can try out both instruments for a very reasonable price.

http://www.tonydixonmusic.co.uk/catalog ... nshop.html
see DX022

[Feadoggie]

What are the considerations when choosing between those two choices?

How well do you tolerate frustration?

The flute and low whistle are two different instruments (Doh!). Both are very expressive instruments but in different ways. They can each present their own challenges.

The low whistle is the easier of the two for a rank beginner, IMHO. The primary issue is usually becoming comfortable with the stretch to cover the tone holes. Depending on the size of your hands and fingers that may not be an issue for you. The piper's grip helps many people sort out this issue. It just takes some patience and practice. Another plus with low whistles is that you can work your way down to the low D by buying progressively lower whistles. Start with say a Bb then an A or a G, then an F maybe an Eb and then the low D. It keeps the whistle makers in business too.

The flute comes with the whole issue of embouchure - the interface between the lips and the blow hole. Some players take to it immediately and others take months or even years to get a good strong tone from the flute. But that issue of embouchure makes the flute the more versatile and dynamic of the two instruments, IMO.

Fingering the scales on the two instruments are the same. But stylistic details will differ.

A good tactic, IMO, is to buy/try a decent low whistle (maybe a Dixon poly) and an inexpensive cylindrical flute (perhaps a Tipple) and go at them until you decide. Then once you are comfortable, drop the big bucks on the instrument of your choice. You'll end up playing both instruments over time anyway.

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

[plunk111]

(NOTE: Feadoggie seems to have been posting at the same time as myself - sorry for some duplication!)

I play both... Flute is much more versatile, in my opinion, but - and this is a BIG but - it is MUCH harder to play. If you have never played flute, stick with the whistle and either do as the above poster suggested (the Dixon option), or buy a Tipple to see if you'll be able to handle the flute. Tipples hold their value and don't cost much in the first place AND play quite well. I think (again my opinion) that Tipples play better than Dixons (at least the convertible model). FWIW, once you get hooked on the flute, whistle will take a back seat. Also, I highly recommend you jump to a wooden flute once you DO get hooked. I am very happy with my 4-key Copley and still dream about a McGee GLP 6-key. I still thing the McGee GLP is the best keyless out there, BTW.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Pat

[chas]

I'd second or third the suggestion to get a Tipple flute over a Dixon low-D duo.

I agree with what's been said about the differences between low whistle and flute, but I'll put it into my own words. The player is most of the sound of a flute, whereas the whistle is most of the sound of the whistle. By that I mean that two players of one flute will get different sounds out of it, while one player on two different flutes will get similar sounds out of it. Contrast that with the sound one player gets from, say, an Overton vs. a Copeland low D. Once you've developed good habits, you can get sounds out of it from dirty and growly to pure and sweet (this sounds like it contradicts my original point, but I know what I mean), and volumes from much louder than any low whistle to so quiet that it seems far away.

If all this sounds hard to master, it's because it IS hard to master. But once you've got some chops, in a sense the flute is easier to play well than a low whistle in that it's more difficult to get the range of colors and emotions from a whistle than it is from a flute.

[Adrian W.]

I've seen versions of this discussion a number of times now, and the upshot always seems to be....the flute is more versatile, more control over volume etc. I don't disagree. I really, really like the sound of a timber flute, have a borrowed one,and am trying to figure it out.....I listen to lots of flute players. But what I don't see discussed is.....which sound do you like? Personally, much as I like the flute....and Conal O'Grada's 'Cnoc Bui' hasn't been out of the cd player in my truck for a while, I saw him in concert a few weeks ago....I LOVE the sound of a whistle, low or high. THAT is what gets me, every time, and that is what drew me into the music. I play both high and low whistles....woudn't call my self a great low whistler by any means, but I have a couple and they get played. It's the whistle that drew me into the music, and the music is more important to me than what instrument I'm playing.

What I'm trying to say is, to me the instrument is a way to the music, and if you prefer the sound of the whistle....I do....play the whistle. If you prefer the sound of the flute, play the flute.

[pancelticpiper]

Adrian brings up a valid point about the timbre of the flute vs Low D whistle.

In ITM circles there's usually an unspoken assumption that the flute is inherently superior in every way. But the truth is, only a fairly small percentage of people get a really interesting timbre out of their Irish flute. Usually, Irish flutes just sound like flutes.

On the other hand, anyone can blow into a Low D whistle and get the timbre that the whistle produces, and pretty much all Low D's produce a more interesting, textured tone than is heard by most Irish fluteplayers.

Low D's have several drawbacks 1) wider finger stretch 2) greater air requirement 3) fixed volume, usually a bit too quiet in the low notes and a bit too loud in the high notes.

[jim stone]

flute, especially if you like obsessions

[chris_coreline]

warning! the flute is difficult!

[riverman]

I've seen versions of this discussion a number of times now, and the upshot always seems to be....the flute is more versatile, more control over volume etc. I don't disagree. I really, really like the sound of a timber flute, have a borrowed one,and am trying to figure it out.....I listen to lots of flute players. But what I don't see discussed is.....which sound do you like? Personally, much as I like the flute....and Conal O'Grada's 'Cnoc Bui' hasn't been out of the cd player in my truck for a while, I saw him in concert a few weeks ago....I LOVE the sound of a whistle, low or high. THAT is what gets me, every time, and that is what drew me into the music. I play both high and low whistles....woudn't call my self a great low whistler by any means, but I have a couple and they get played. It's the whistle that drew me into the music, and the music is more important to me than what instrument I'm playing.

What I'm trying to say is, to me the instrument is a way to the music, and if you prefer the sound of the whistle....I do....play the whistle. If you prefer the sound of the flute, play the flute.

Hear! Hear!

The bright, "immediate" sound of the whistle (high or low) is what I loved hearing in Irish/Celtic CDs in the first place. It's what brought me into playing.

Which is a good thing, because I couldn't make a decent sound on a flute if somebody put a gun to my head!

[riverman]

Thanks, pancelpiper; sometimes I suffer from "whistle inferiority complex."

(Though I have nothing but respect for those who master the flute--my daughter included).

(Sorry about the double post--it was therapy).

[pancelticpiper]

What's funny about this flute vs Low D whistle thing is, I've found that it's much easier to play in tune on the flute than on the Low D whistle. I wonder why that might be. I played Irish flute for 30 years and was always able to play in tune, but a couple years ago I had to switch to Low D whistle due to hand cramping playing the flute and I've consistently had a hard time playing the Low D, any Low D, in tune. I think it's just a matter of sticking to one Low D and really getting used to playing it. I've got much better now having played the same Burke for around two years.

[Wormdiet]

Adrian brings up a valid point about the timbre of the flute vs Low D whistle.

In ITM circles there's usually an unspoken assumption that the flute is inherently superior in every way. But the truth is, only a fairly small percentage of people get a really interesting timbre out of their Irish flute. Usually, Irish flutes just sound like flutes.

On the other hand, anyone can blow into a Low D whistle and get the timbre that the whistle produces, and pretty much all Low D's produce a more interesting, textured tone than is heard by most Irish fluteplayers.

Low D's have several drawbacks 1) wider finger stretch 2) greater air requirement 3) fixed volume, usually a bit too quiet in the low notes and a bit too loud in the high notes.

That would seem to be a judgment call to be made by each listener. . . .

[MusicalADD]

I had to switch to Low D whistle due to hand cramping

Can you say some more about that -- the ergonomics? Is the flute inherently more prone to hand-cramping?

I play low D (somewhat...) and with the piper's grip, my hands feel comfortable. But I still run out of air, even with my MK. Someone said that flutes take less air? So I'm wondering if I should try flute.

But I've been looking at pictures of flute players, and trying to imitate their hand positions, using my low D in place of a flute. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe I'm just not accustomed to it yet, but my left hand feels very uncomfortable in holding the flute.

[crookedtune]

Someone said that flutes take less air? So I'm wondering if I should try flute.

Initially, it will probably take more air. As you develop a tight, efficient embouchure, you'll begin using a lot less air. I now find flute much easier to play than low whistles, and much more satisifying. I've settled into playing whistles down to low G, and flutes for the lower ranges.

Learning timber flute is a challenge, but no more so than many other instruments, IMO. They're all just tools. Personally, I think the far greater challenge is in gaining an insightful understanding of the music itself. It's easy to learn to bash out a few tunes, but it's only once you're there that you realize you're not a musician yet. That's when the real work begins!