Oz Vambrace vs. Busman

[elwalti]

Hey all,
I'm a relative new whistler and have decided to purchase a new higher-end whistle in high D. I've narrowed it down to either a Busman or an Oz Vambrace, probably in blackwood. I was wondering if anybody could give me their opinions on these two (or even on others that they love).
I'm also looking at a new higher-end metal whistle. Some I'm looking at include the Le Meur, the Harper, and the Hudson. I prefer tunable whistles on these....
I do have rather larger hands, so that may be a consideration. Admittedly, I have had input on this matter from several esteemed sources (and I really appreciate it) but I would just like to open it more before I buy. Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Mitch]

Oz does not "Vs" Busman in any way - shape and form ... perhaps.

The use of a small-profile fipple-shroud and ligatures on the wood is a common feature in the construction adopted by many makers.

The thing to consider is that the objective of each maker is an individual thing. Regardless of the design constraints, each maker has a totally different idea of what a whistle should do. Sometimes the sublteties are obscure, but if you are playing at a high level, you will have some idea of what you are looking for.

You may have noticed that every mass-produced whistle you pick up will have a range of positive and negative features - some less, some more. It is the same with hand made instruments and depends entirely on the constraints of the materials and techniques employed. It either suits you or not - with a hand-made instrument you have recourse to adjustment.

No 2 whistles are exactly alike, but you WILL find that they all fall within a range - this probably describes a statistical bell-curve around the maker's intent. A hand-producer will not release the bottom end of the bell curve.

It is up to the player to identify which maker satisfies his or her needs as a player. It may well be that the esteemed mass-producers have made the whistle for you.

Thankfully, there are quite a few dedicated individuals who feel called to provide suitable instruments to get the music thay love properly supported.

You will not go wrong choosing a Busman! Paul's work is meticulous - it is part of the calling.

If you prefer my aproach or that of the many others providing your choice, that is part of your expression - it deserves honor.

[brewerpaul]

Aw c'mon mate: we're bitter rivals in the cutthroat world of whistle making, and should be duking it out in a winner takes all steel cage ultimate fighting match!

Seriously, I'll second what Mitch has to say. If you get a chance, try both of our whistles, as well as trying as many others as you can. I haven't tried them,but I've heard nothing but good about the Vambrace whistles.

Group hug, anyone?

[MTGuru]

and should be duking it out in a winner takes all steel cage ultimate fighting match!

You just know we'd pay to see that, don't you?

[hoopy mike]

and should be duking it out in a winner takes all steel cage ultimate fighting match!

You just know we'd pay to see that, don't you?

I bet the TV rights alone would make them both very, very rich men!

[Carey]

Dueling Banjos just sprang into my mind for some reason.

[Steamwalker]

The whistles are obviously more similar than different and I would just take a chance and pick the one you want the most. I own several Busmans and have played the Oz tour whistle, albeit the tour whistle was delrin as opposed to wood. They were all good whistles. The tonal differences between whistles from the same maker can be just as substantial as the tone differences between different whistlemaker's products of similar material and designs. Your best bet is to make a decision and communicate with that maker as to what you would like from the whistle and they should be able to accommodate your requirements.

[Tommy]

Hmmmmm......... well, no one can own just one whistle, and two is not enough either. If you have so many you can't keep up with playing them all, the ones that are not played become better.

[anniemcu]

Roll the dice, throw the dart, toss the coin, or pin the tail ... you can't go wrong with either the Busman or the Oz Vambrace. Both makers are great to deal with, and you will end up happy.

Good luck with your decision!!

[elwalti]

[quote="Mitch"]Oz does not "Vs" Busman in any way - shape and form ... perhaps.

I shouldn't have said versus I guess I just meant I didn't know if there were any major differences in the two whistles as far as size, tone, chiff, etc. I didn't necessarily mean that one was essentially superior in any way. I was just a bit overwhelmed with all the choices. Sorry for the mixup (or the dust-up)

[Guinness]

No 2 whistles are exactly alike, but you WILL find that they all fall within a range - this probably describes a statistical bell-curve around the maker's intent. A hand-producer will not release the bottom end of the bell curve.

In theory, neither will the mass producer, provided that there is some level of QC inspection prior to product release. One could argue that the hand-producer's bell curve is less wide but that is ultimately speculation. Although there have been varying reports about the quality of mass-produced whistles, I don't believe that it's ever been substantiated that poor performing (or for that matter good performing) product did not meet specifications.

If the statistical argument is to be used, then please provide the numbers/graphs.

[Mitch]

No 2 whistles are exactly alike, but you WILL find that they all fall within a range - this probably describes a statistical bell-curve around the maker's intent. A hand-producer will not release the bottom end of the bell curve.

In theory, neither will the mass producer, provided that there is some level of QC inspection prior to product release. One could argue that the hand-producer's bell curve is less wide but that is ultimately speculation. Although there have been varying reports about the quality of mass-produced whistles, I don't believe that it's ever been substantiated that poor performing (or for that matter good performing) product did not meet specifications.

If the statistical argument is to be used, then please provide the numbers/graphs.

some people know.
Some only think they know.
Some pretend they know.
Some cannot beleive that anyone could know.
Some have motive to prevent others from knowing.

Graph this:

Raw data
Whistle# Wheeze Penalty 30 Tuning penalty Number of Close Buzzes Close Buzz Score Number of permanent buzzes Permanent Buzz Score Total Score
Nickels 1 0 30 5 50 1 20 100
Nickels 2 0 30 4 40 0 0 70
Nickels 3 0 30 2 20 2 40 90
Nickels 4 0 30 7 70 1 20 120
Nickels 5 0 30 3 30 1 20 80
Nickels 6 0 30 3 30 1 20 80
Nickels 7 0 35 3 30 0 0 65
Nickels 8 0 30 1 10 0 0 40
Nickels 9 0 30 7 70 0 0 100
Nickels 10 0 30 11 110 0 0 140
Nickels 11 0 30 7 70 2 40 140
Nickels 12 0 30 7 70 0 0 100
Nickels 13 30 35 1 10 0 0 75
Nickels 14 30 30 2 20 0 0 80
Nickels 15 30 20 2 20 0 0 70
Nickels 16 30 40 1 10 0 0 80
Nickels 17 30 30 4 40 0 0 100
Nickels 18 0 30 6 60 0 0 90
Nickels 19 30 30 1 10 0 0 70
Nickels 20 30 30 0 0 0 0 60
Nickels 21 30 30 2 20 0 0 80
Nickels 22 30 30 2 20 0 0 80
Nickels 23 30 35 0 0 0 0 65
Nickels 24 30 40 1 10 0 0 80
Nickels 25 0 40 0 0 0 0 40
Brass 1 26 0 40 1 10 0 0 50
Brass 1 27 0 45 5 50 0 0 95
Brass 1 28 30 45 4 40 0 0 115
Brass 1 29 0 40 3 30 0 0 70
Brass 1 30 0 50 4 40 0 0 90
Brass 1 31 0 45 3 30 0 0 75
Brass 1 32 0 50 8 80 0 0 130
Brass 1 33 0 40 3 30 0 0 70
Brass 1 34 0 45 1 10 0 0 55
Brass 1 35 0 40 3 30 0 0 70
Brass 1 36 0 40 6 60 0 0 100
Brass 1 37 0 40 2 20 0 0 60
Brass 1 38 30 45 3 30 0 0 105
Brass 1 39 0 40 8 80 0 0 120
Brass 1 40 0 40 3 30 0 0 70
Brass 1 41 30 40 3 30 0 0 100
Brass 1 42 0 40 5 50 0 0 90
Brass 1 43 0 40 6 60 0 0 100
Brass 1 44 0 35 6 60 0 0 95
Brass 1 45 0 50 1 10 0 0 60
Brass 2 46 0 40 7 70 0 0 110
Brass 2 47 0 35 3 30 1 20 85
Brass 2 48 0 35 5 50 1 20 105
Brass 2 49 0 50 5 50 1 20 120
Brass 2 50 0 45 0 0 0 0 45
Brass 2 51 0 45 4 40 0 0 85
Brass 2 52 0 40 6 60 1 20 120
Brass 2 53 0 40 6 60 1 20 120
Brass 2 54 0 30 1 10 0 0 40
Brass 2 55 0 40 4 40 0 0 80
Brass 2 56 0 40 5 50 0 0 90
Brass 2 57 0 40 4 40 0 0 80
Brass 2 58 0 40 4 40 1 20 100
Brass 2 59 0 40 4 40 0 0 80
Brass 2 60 0 40 7 70 0 0 110
Brass 2 61 0 50 5 50 0 0 100
Brass 2 62 0 50 3 30 0 0 80
Brass 2 63 0 50 2 20 0 0 70
Brass 2 64 0 50 8 80 1 20 150
Brass 2 65 30 50 2 20 0 0 100
Brass 2 66 0 45 5 50 0 0 95
Brass 2 67 0 40 5 50 0 0 90
Brass 2 68 0 45 4 40 1 20 105
Brass 2 69 0 40 5 50 0 0 90
Brass 2 70 0 45 5 50 0 0 95
Brass 2 71 0 50 5 50 0 0 100
Brass 2 72 0 45 4 40 0 0 85
Brass 2 73 0 50 5 50 0 0 100
Brass 2 74 0 45 8 80 0 0 125
Brass 2 75 0 45 7 70 0 0 115

The data is flaws based using a sample of high D whistles from a representative mass-producer (Best whistle = lowest score). At the top end of this double-bell-curve one has a whistle that can be passed into more subjective analysis (i.e. playing music on them).
Without applying the scientific method, my anecdotal experience is that no whistle hand-made by a reputable maker has ANY of the flaws charted in this data. I have tested examples of 16 such makers so far.

[elwalti]

please guys...no math, no math!!! I beg of you!!! anything but that!!!

[Guinness]

...some people...

Agreed and indeed universally applicable.

Graph this:

No no no... you can't expect others to graph and interpret data that is meaningful only to you ("Some have motive to prevent others from knowing.")

I'll try anyway.

Whistle#
Wheeze Penalty 30
Tuning penalty
Number of Close Buzzes
Close Buzz Score
Number of permanent buzzes
Permanent Buzz Score
Total Score

Although I haven't gone through 75 mass-produced high D's (in one sitting anyway), I can't say any of the ones I tried could be described as wheezy or buzzy. What is wheeze and why is the scoring binary (0 or 30) and why is it given the least weight? What is a tuning penalty and why is every whistle penalized? No whistle, including any carefully hand-made ones can claim perfect tuning (is the instrument perfectly tuned if you have to blow it into tune?). I hope you are not comparing tunable whistles with non-tunables? Whatever buzz is, clearly you have given it the heaviest weighting and that skews the data.

Nickels 1 0 30 5 50 1 20 100
Nickels 2 0 30 4 40 0 0 70
Nickels 3 0 30 2 20 2 40 90
Nickels 4 0 30 7 70 1 20 120
Nickels 5 0 30 3 30 1 20 80
[...]

One for you. However if the ratings are based on a subjective scale, then how meaningful is the standard deviation? Okay, so let's assume you have sufficiently established performance variation. Does that prove there is less variability with hand-made whistles? And this still does not tell us if the manufacturer(s) have released product that is out of their own spec.

The data is flaws based using a sample of high D whistles from a representative mass-producer (Best whistle = lowest score). At the top end of this double-bell-curve one has a whistle that can be passed into more subjective analysis (i.e. playing music on them).

I don't know what you mean (pun unintended). Based on your data Brass 1 has the least variability but should have similar acceptability to Nickels, going by total score. Brass 2 is out there but not by much. What is your threshold for "playing music"?

Without applying the scientific method, my anecdotal experience is that no whistle hand-made by a reputable maker has ANY of the flaws charted in this data. I have tested examples of 16 such makers so far.

Okay so you like whistles by reputable makers. Strange how some folks have sent their pricey whistles back. Were these duds or dud players?

98% of all statistics are made up.

[Steamwalker]

This post has become entirely too complicated.