clogging?

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peeplj
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Re: clogging?

Post by peeplj »

gerardo1000 wrote:
any whistle will sound better when warmed before playing, but some absolutely require it: Overtons, O'Briens, Susatos, and Elfsongs, to name a few, are an entirely different whistle when played warm verses when played cold.
I thought that plastic whistles, like Susato, do not need to be warmed up, they always sound the same
Well, you won't damage a plastic whistle by not warming it up first, but any woodwind plays better when warm, no matter what they are made of.

Plastic is, after all, just another material.

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Pammy
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Re: clogging?

Post by Pammy »

So is the general census of opinion that because plastic doesn't change temperature in the same way as metal that it may clog less?
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Re: clogging?

Post by Flyingcursor »

Pammy wrote:So is the general census of opinion that because plastic doesn't change temperature in the same way as metal that it may clog less?
Nobody has answered this yet?

It doesn't matter. They all clog up. Metal will clog more if it's cold because of condensation. Just fling your spit in the direction of your audience and they'll love you.
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peeplj
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Re: clogging?

Post by peeplj »

I think how a whistle is voiced, and how the fipple is constructed, has a lot more to do with whether or not it tends to clog easily than do the material it's made from.

That's just my $.02; I'm not a maker (yet), only a player.

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Re: clogging?

Post by DrPhill »

peeplj wrote:I think how a whistle is voiced, and how the fipple is constructed, has a lot more to do with whether or not it tends to clog easily than do the material it's made from.
Sometimes a maker will take great pains to reduce the problem with appropriate materials. For example, from Phil Bleazey's site, the page on flute care contains:

"Do not under any circumstances allow oil to enter the windway of recorders or whistles. The blocks of these instruments are made of pencil cedar which is especially porous, and it is oriented with the grain vertical to enhance this property. Droplets of moisture which clog the windways of plastic and metal instruments are absorbed through the top of the block and eventually evaporate out through the ends."
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Re: clogging?

Post by McHaffie »

I can tell you from personal experience that how likely a whistle is to have condensation issues does indeed have a great deal to do with materials used and the construction of the mouthpiece / fipple.

When I first started out, my fipple plugs were made of wood and the fipple themselves of copper. I had many reports and emails that the whistles nearly never - if ever clogged after just a few minutes of playing. The only problem with this was that there were a few problems with consistency of materials with the wooden dowels and I did not have the lathes / mchining equipment to make this a standard so I switched to Delrin (a type of hard plastic) for the fipple plug.

I still had / have very little clogging problems due to the design of the whistle and how the fipple attaches to the body. There are several makers who have taken a similar approach since those days.

One of the biggest reasons you will get condensation issues is that the smaller the airway, and more squared off the window is where the airway comes out to meet the blade, the more of an effect any kind of disturbance in that tiny airstream is going to have before it hits the blade. Such as condensation.

Several people have suggested various soap, detergent, and commercial products to help alleviate this issue and I would highly recommend following any of those of your choice with any whistle that seems to be giving you 'clogging problems'. It is simply the nature of the beast in most cases, but one easily tamed.

Take care and happy whistling!! :D
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Re: clogging?

Post by walrii »

squidgirl wrote:Just cover the leading edge of the window a little bit with your finger, and blow hard. If there's nothing but liquid clogging, it will spit right out the window or run down the tube.
You can also suck the liquid out of the windway with a sharp intake of breath. You won't get a mouthful of anything - the amount of liquid in the windway is barely detectable. So, just quick pull on the mouthpiece when you take a breath and keep on going. Some people consider this gross but the liquid came from inside you in the first place so putting it back isn't a big deal.

Blowing out the windway as described by squidgirl also blows out some of the moisture that collects in the tube which sucking does not.

I don't know if others have noticed this but my Feadogs improve their tone a bit as they clog. There's a point where the tone mellows a little and gets less raspy for a minute or so. Then the whistle clogs, I blow or suck it out and the Feadog sounds like it usually does. This doesn't happen all the time although it does happen regularly. I haven't figured out what (humidity, temperature, what I just ate or drank) makes it happen.
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Re: clogging?

Post by pancelticpiper »

This problem does seem to vary a lot depending on the type of mouthpiece and materials.

I never have any problems with Feadogs or Generations.

My Burkes and Susatos, perhaps due to the curved windway, don't clog on me.

I had an Overton Low D for a few years and it drove me crazy. The extremely narrow flat parallel aluminum windway seemed to be designed specifically to clog as much as possible. I couldn't get through one part of a tune before the tone began diminishing. I had to develop the habit of inhaling through the mouthpiece which keeps it clear of water. On the other hand I can play my Burke Low D for hours with no clogging at all.
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Re: clogging?

Post by Makar »

I struggle with clogging on the overton low D and G that I have - also the Harper high D. All very similar windways - probably a combination of design along with a reasonable saliva flow (not that I've compared that :-? ), not warming up enough, not spending enough time playing them and perhaps my style not pushing these designs hard enough!? I keep trying but maybe one day I will give up on these and stick to things that seem to work better for me.

Not sure if clogging is one of the issues that improves (dissipates) along with your experience level. You know, leave a whistle that you find not quite right for you, pick it up a few months later and it has miraculously improved...

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Re: clogging?

Post by McHaffie »

walrii wrote:I don't know if others have noticed this but my Feadogs improve their tone a bit as they clog. There's a point where the tone mellows a little and gets less raspy for a minute or so. Then the whistle clogs, I blow or suck it out and the Feadog sounds like it usually does. This doesn't happen all the time although it does happen regularly. I haven't figured out what (humidity, temperature, what I just ate or drank) makes it happen.
I'm betting Jerry can step in here on this one and correct me if I'm wrong... but in my experience, that is usually caused by a slight imperfection where the air exits the windway into the window of the fipple. Usually, I have always been able to lightly (and I mean LIGHTLY) sand the bottom edge of the windway a bit to smooth it out.

Effectively, your moisture build up is doing the same thing for you for a time, creating a smooth edge for the air to flow out of, until it builds up to the point that you experience clogging. With a little tampering you can usually find a happy medium.

Before you or anyone runs off and takes my advice, I highly recommend you get yourself a spare fipple. It is not an exact science without some practice and patience. Go a tiny bit at a time and use super fine grit sand paper so your surface is smooth.

Take care!
John
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Re: clogging?

Post by hoopy mike »

Flyingcursor wrote:
Pammy wrote:Just fling your spit in the direction of your audience and they'll love you.
Especially if you're Andrea Corr.
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Re: clogging?

Post by Pammy »

Thankyou for answering Flyingcursor.

Just sounds to me that you have to suck it and see but it could be a very expensive mistake i.e. the Overton low D



Did I read it right you make whistles McHaffie
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Re: clogging?

Post by dspmusik »

My curved windway fipple whistles (delrin or wood block) seem to not clog at all, whereas my plastic fipple, rectangular windway whistles clog very fast.
Just my experience.
I was interested that some mentioned the Generations not clogging, that's my worst culprit! Strange.
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Re: clogging?

Post by bogman »

"Just sounds to me that you have to suck it and see but it could be a very expensive mistake i.e. the Overton low D"

Pammy, Overtons do not clog unless they're not played properly. I have over a dozen Overtons (by Colin Goldie) and none of them clog - ever, unless they're neglected, which they aren't.
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Re: clogging?

Post by bogman »

http://www.colingoldie.de/players.html

Would all these folk play Overtons if it was the instrument itself that was responsible for the clogging?
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