Mary's Magical 'A' Gracenote

[BoneQuint]

This is what the note looks like when it's "flubbed".

Well, I like the sound of it. Perhaps intentional "flubbing" is a good skill to learn!

[MTGuru]

This is what the note looks like when it's "flubbed".

Well, I like the sound of it. Perhaps intentional "flubbing" is a good skill to learn!

Actually, controlling a whistle's inherent chiff so that it always works for you instead of against you is one of those essential skills I haven't mastered yet.

Not to sound dismissive of your workflow but having done something similar in the past I find that pasting the ABC into

http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

and then grabbing the PDF is easier and produces similar output. You can use the PDF screen grab tool to pull out a portion in GIF or similar format.

No, not dismissive at all! The Tune-O-Tron thingy works well. In fact the back end seems to be abcm2ps. So the same abcm2ps formatting directives and ABC extensions work in both, and the output is basically identical.

I don't recommend my approach to people who aren't comfortable with command lines and batch files or shell scripts, but it gives you a lot of control.

[MTGuru]

Following Peter Laban's helpful (and now vanished) suggestion to examine the triplets in the Tartini tuner ...

Each of these graphs is a note-frequency analysis of the each of the 4 occurrences of the phrase

ag (3ege d

containing the triplet in part B of the poster's clip. The center vertical line is on the 1st E of the triplet. The whistle is tuned/played up to 50 cents sharp throughout, so the pitches tend to be slightly above the lines. But they're are clear enough as they glide near and around the note centers. The bottom panel shows relative loudness.

The first graph (red) shows the "flubbed" E, which is analyzed as an A# because of the spurious harmonics. This makes it a bit hard to see what's happening here.



The second graph (green) is better, with the EGE triplet clearly shown, and the top G played fairly quickly, almost as a cut. There are no magic tricks here, just the same notes as transcribed.



The third and fourth graphs (blue and teal) are the easiest to read, and the notes are well delineated. The tongued A and B before the triplet are clealy separated. The triplet, played e/g/e, is relaxed, and the top note is clearly G, not A. You can see the dip in the first E and the hump in the G as the fingers move too quickly for the pitches to stabilize. You can see the smooth transition between the slurred final E and D. All the notes and articulations match the transcription.





As for timing, I think it's interesting to actually see that, at this speed, the notes occur on the order of ~100 milliseconds, sometimes less. And the transitions are faster still. It's a reminder that details at this tiny time scale make a real difference for the successful execution of a tune.

[MTGuru]

Re-reading the posts, I may have an idea of what's behind the miscommunication.

First, if the original poster is coming from the GHB world, he may be referring to cuts and taps and such as "gracenotes". In my vocabulary, a gracenote is different and not much used in ITM dance music, in the art music sense of a leading or embellishing tone with a definite pitch and time value, that steals time from the preceding or following note. And though cuts and taps may be represented as small "gracenotes" in transcription (as I, in fact, use them), they are finger articulations, not graces. Maybe this is one source of terminology confusion.

Second, as a piper, he may be referring to fingers according to the "vent hole" convention rather than the "close hole" convention as most whistler I know do. So when he talks of using the "A finger", perhaps he means what I would call the "G finger", or T3. And by an "A gracenote" he may mean "a cut using the T3 finger".

In that context, maybe he is really asking if in the figure |z2 ag (3ege dz| there is a descending cut between the g and the start of the triplet, i.e. |z2 ag {a}(3ege dz|. That's certainly doable. After the g, you simultaneously lift T3 and drop B1 and B2, then execute the cut with T3. Of course, the answer is still: no, that's not what is happening in the recording, according to both Tartini and one's ears. Nor is a similar double-cut as Bloomfield mentioned, |z2 ag ({a}e{g}e) dz|. But at least that question makes more sense.

Anyway ...

[Buffpiper]

Absolutely brilliant analysis, Dr. MTGuru. Your spectrograph interpretations border on rocket science! As far my confusion regarding the whistle terminology, that's very possible as I guess that I use the 'cut' and 'gracenote' terms interchangeably and probably not very consistently.

Cheers,

Buffpiper

[Buffpiper]

P.s. I still think it's a tongue trick and an A cut!

[keithsandra]

J : A belated thank you for your ABC conversion details. It'll take me some time to rouse the necessary IQ that you apparently take for granted to try this ...

Best,
Keith.

PS: And thanks to srt19170 for your helpful response to my question too. K

[dlovrien]

P.s. I still think it's a tongue trick and an A cut!

There is a fast cut on the attack of the first A in the triplet bar that is not notated in the transcription that's been posted, and it happens all 4 times that bar comes around. Perhaps this is what you are referring to?

[keithsandra]

MTGuru: Your new image is not as good looking as the original. Is this before or after the Princess kissed you?



Keith.

[MTGuru]

MTGuru: Your new image is not as good looking as the original. Is this before or after the Princess kissed you?

I'm afraid I had no choice. All hail our benevolent Hypnotoad masters!

[keithsandra]

WARNING!: The remorseless flashing of A in morse code is a worldwide WhOA conspiracy! I've already ordered 300 key of A whistles since this image was posted ... Does anyone know of MTGuru's whereabouts and condition? Has Dale alerted the White House?

K

K

[MarkP]

wow, how the devil finds work for idle hands

I am mystified about her use of an A gracenote in the 2nd part.

Without stirring an over-complicated soup, it sounds awfully like a pretty straight forward A cut to me?

[dlovrien]

P.s. I still think it's a tongue trick and an A cut!

There is a fast cut on the attack of the first A in the triplet bar that is not notated in the transcription that's been posted, and it happens all 4 times that bar comes around. Perhaps this is what you are referring to?

Yup. Perhaps since the OP comes from the pipes he is less familiar with combining a tongue or breath attack with the cut.

[McHaffie]

Greetings all,

I haven't listened to the clip, but if this is a debate over the embellishment I think it is - and buffpiper has asked me about before - then I actually took the course at the St. Louis Tionol from Mary Bergin and one of the toons she taught us was The Congress... it is an interesting ornamentation. I will describe it the best I can - the experts and long standing members here can better define it for me in more professional terms....

The two most important 'holes' in question are....

OXOOOX

I start the entire process with a toungued note mainly just to start crisp and because it's in the upper octave.
Here is the fun part. There are two ways to play this - I'll go over the second at the end.

So the sequence is... starting with you fingers covering all but D...
XXXXXO
start a solid note, immediately cut or 'chirp' the A note then hammer down your finger over the D to close all holes maintaining the upper octave.
XXXXXO -> XOXXXO -> XXXXXO -> XXXXXX

It should come out a nice smooth 'doodley-yoo'

NOTE: This is a bit tricky. If you were to try and simply play an 'A' note this way it should squeak at you like nobody's business - there is a bit of nearly unconscious slight breath relaxation for the millisecond that you have your finger off of the A note, but not enough to quiet the note if that makes any sense.

If you have too much trouble with your whistle or playing style supporting this - you can switch from A to G for the 'chirp' note -> XXOXXO - this will give you a more crisp ornamentation flow, however it is up to you to decide which holds more charm Basically what the fellas are saying just before this post is what I'm trying to describe.

I simply prefer the A because of the sort of 'slurry chime' it creates with my whistle if I open up the fipple just a bit. Plus I really like the tune

Take care all and sorry if that was a horrible description. It's been a long time, a lot of programming, and I've lost my memories on correct naming conventions for my taps, cuts, rolls, and crans I'm lucky I can still play!!! ha!

My Best,
John McHaffie

[MTGuru]

Hey John, you made me have to go back and fix all the broken links! Now I have to read the thread again ...