Michael Burke whistles - thumbhole

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:56 am

TODDLEMM wrote:It was I, TODDLEMM, who quoted Mr. Burke about the thumbhole issue. Sorry to create such a controversy....my mom died earlier tonight, and I responded in a very stressful condition.

Todd, I'm so sorry for your loss. There was nothing wrong or out of line with your comments, and I'm sure Michael thinks so, too. As I said, I was just being a bit provocative and nit-picky to make a point. And it did provoke a very interesting and informative response from the master himself. My apologies if I added to your worries at this difficult time.

Ctrl Alt Del · Post by **Ctrl Alt Del** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:03 am

Todd, sorry to hear about your mom. Play a little tune for her.

Michael Burke · Post by **Michael Burke** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:15 am

Hi Todd,
I am really sorry to hear about your Mom. I would normally write you privately, but I want to publicly say that I don't feel that you ever characterized my comments inaccurately and I have many more models available for you at any time. My purpose was to correct any misconceptions about what I said about the issue. You were very clear in stating that I spent a lot of time and a lot of posts discussing this with you before you decided to get the thumbholes and I am delighted that you like them.
I enjoy immensely MT Guru's posts, so I would not want to stifle his passion to state his own ideas either, so "lay on MT and D_mn be he who cries Hold! Enough!" Woops, better not use that quote. The last guy that said that lost his head in more ways than one!.

iwanttotoot · Post by **iwanttotoot** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:29 am

Todd, so sorry to hear of your loss.

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:37 am

I'm a huge Burke whistle fan. I'm up to six Burkes and counting. I really wish I could afford them in every key!

I'm also an Irish wind "purist" I guess you could say, who didn't come to the whistle from "the fipple instrument that shall not be named" or "the flute that shall not be named".
Therefore I do not see any purpose whatever of attempting to make the Irish whistle, which is excellent and perfect as it is for the music that is played upon it, into what amounts to a pale imitation of the Boehm flute.
The thumbhole for C natural works against the very nature of thumbholes in traditional woodwinds: on the recorder, the Quena, the uilleann pipes (and nearly all other bagpipes), the thumbhole is for the octave of the "six finger note". Even the Saxophone uses the cross-fingered flat 7th which all of these other instruments use.
It was Boehm who came up with the idea of going against all tradition by drilling a thumbhole for the flat 7th.
So why try to make a whistle into something its not?
The cross-fingered C natural on the uilleann pipes, flute, and whistle is one of the wonderful shared features of technique. This note has a distinctive timbre that traditional players love. It can be bent, cut, patted, and rolled beautifully.

Well off my soapbox. If people who come to Irish music just can't abandon their cherished Boehm fingering and learn to play Irish instruments the traditional way, so be it. They are perfectly free to do what they will.

But the thumbhole is the Mark, or Sign, of the Evil Thing.

Now what I would love whistles, all whistles, to have is a hole for the lower flat 7th, a low C on a D whistle etc. (Which would be just as controversial.)

falkbeer · Post by **falkbeer** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:18 pm

pancelticpiper wrote:I'm a huge Burke whistle fan. I'm up to six Burkes and counting. I really wish I could afford them in every key!

I'm also an Irish wind "purist" I guess you could say, who didn't come to the whistle from "the fipple instrument that shall not be named" or "the flute that shall not be named".
Therefore I do not see any purpose whatever of attempting to make the Irish whistle, which is excellent and perfect as it is for the music that is played upon it, into what amounts to a pale imitation of the Boehm flute.
The thumbhole for C natural works against the very nature of thumbholes in traditional woodwinds: on the recorder, the Quena, the uilleann pipes (and nearly all other bagpipes), the thumbhole is for the octave of the "six finger note". Even the Saxophone uses the cross-fingered flat 7th which all of these other instruments use.
It was Boehm who came up with the idea of going against all tradition by drilling a thumbhole for the flat 7th.
So why try to make a whistle into something its not?
The cross-fingered C natural on the uilleann pipes, flute, and whistle is one of the wonderful shared features of technique. This note has a distinctive timbre that traditional players love. It can be bent, cut, patted, and rolled beautifully.

Well off my soapbox. If people who come to Irish music just can't abandon their cherished Boehm fingering and learn to play Irish instruments the traditional way, so be it. They are perfectly free to do what they will.

But the thumbhole is the Mark, or Sign, of the Evil Thing.

Now what I would love whistles, all whistles, to have is a hole for the lower flat 7th, a low C on a D whistle etc. (Which would be just as controversial.)

But there has always been hybrid instruments. For example banjos with guitar tuning and banjos with ukuelel tuning. And, why not. A whistle with the same fingering as a Boehm flute would make them more accessible for flute players. And we could all be like one big happy whistleing family!

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:37 pm

((((Todd))))

I m sorry to note your mother's passing. One can be forgiven a whole lot of things under such duress. May her soul fly free and may you find the strength to get through this difficult time.

TODDLEMM · Post by **TODDLEMM** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:58 pm

Thanks so much to all for you kind wishes. What a great group of whistlers. I really appreciate the support and hope I wasn't too weird with my alcohol induced public bereavement...I got the news while on C&F. I have the utmost respect for all on this site, and only wish to spread the good news of whistling....and Mike Burke makes some kick a$$ whistles. Time to go to Rhode Island in a snowstorm. I'm playing Londonderry Aire at the funeral on my Burke DBN....what a whistlel!! I'll cross finger the C nat. out of respect for MTGuru (even if it's out of tune).....Your pal, Todd

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:53 pm

Best wishes to you and your family Todd.

If anyone is still counting votes, I kinda like thumb holes. I don't often use them on my whistles that are so endowed, but when I do use them I quite like having the option. I agree it's a "no brainer" unless, of course, one has no left thumb.

Doc

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:09 pm

Michael Burke wrote:I enjoy immensely MT Guru's posts, so I would not want to stifle his passion to state his own ideas either

Gosh, Michael ... from now on I'll have to watch what I say, knowing that you're watching what I say.

Thanks for sharing your excellent comments and clearing that up. The combination of strong design ideas on the one hand, and responsiveness to customer input on the other, is exactly what I'd expect.

The DASBT, which is my main go-to whistle for sessions and performing, has a spot-on cross fingered C-nat. So ironically, this whistle on which the thumb hole is readily available is one that may need it the least. But I understand how player preferences work, and your making the option available is a positive thing.

I'm pretty neutral (or maybe ambivalent) on this issue myself. I've played a DASBT with the thumb hole, it works as you describe, and took all of about 30 seconds to figure out. Whatever reluctance I have has more to do with 1) Not wanting to rely on non-standard fingerings on one whistle for working out tune settings; and 2) Hand geometry, and adjusting my left thumb position up and down the tube as my physical condition and the mechanics of playing particular tunes may vary. For that, a thumb hole limits one's options.

Michael Burke wrote:so "lay on MT and D_mn be he who cries Hold! Enough!" Woops, better not use that quote. The last guy that said that lost his head in more ways than one!.

Funny, I'm actually related to old Mr. Mac Bethad mac Findlaích (Macbeth MacFinley), so maybe I'd better take your cautionary quote to heart!

Glorfindel · Post by **Glorfindel** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:10 am

Todd, I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope your journey through the snow storm was a safe one. And don't be afraid to speak about your loss...it helps in the bereavement process.

To all of you posters: thanks for your replies and input. I really like the idea of having a thumbhole to get an accurate c natural....it was nice to have the option. And if I were in the studio or playing professionally, perhaps that is the route I would go. I don't know. For my purposes, I've ordered my Michael Burke whistle without the thumbhole, simply because that's how I've learned to play. Not that I've been playing that long.... I guess when it came down to it, I have enough to learn and improve on without adding another hole. When I feel I'm at a high skill level and have my techniques down, then I can decide if I like my C natural or if I want to add a thumbhole.

My Burke whistle should arrive by the end of the week. It's the first really nice whistle I've purchased, and I've read so many positive reviews....can't wait!