Frustration!

paulsdad · Post by **paulsdad** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:27 am

I am getting very frustrated with my progress in learning the whistle. I've been playing for about 10 years and have "plateaued" at a much lower level than I would like. I know and play about 40+ tunes and have learned most of them by downloading the sheet music off web sites such as Wild Dismay or the Session.

I probably do the best job on slow airs and waltzes, although I can get up to a moderate speed on selected jigs, reels, etc. I have pretty decent tone and it does sound like music when I play. People who don't know any better think I'm pretty good. I have played a few times in public. I think my main problem is with my speed, lack of ornamentation, etc. (Maybe lack of overall talent)

I live in the Winston-Salem, NC area and have not had much luck meeting other Celtic/ Irish musicians who are interested in playing together. I would also really like to find a music teacher who can help me get "over the hump".

Several months ago I purchased the "Complete Irish Whistle Tunebook" that comes with the 6 CD's. Each tune is featured on the CD as a practice version and a performance version. Generally, even the practice version is too fast or has a ton of ornamentation. The author is very blasé about being able to learn all 120+ tunes, "so that one will have the basics to participate in a session". I figure it will take me about 10 years to work my way through the book.

I have read that Irish music is supposed to be learned by ear, and I can play some tunes that way. Most of the performers I have heard play their music blisteringly fast with lots or ornamentation. My ear isn't talented enough to pick up the tunes that way.

Any suggestions?

Paulsdad

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:06 am

Hi Paul's Dad,

I can sooooo relate.

A few things I've learned... (no claims to expertise, just a listing of things noted)

Don't get caught up in the 'speed is better' line... it isn't.

Do listen to the folks you really like. If you want to play a particular style, listen to that style by the best players you can get your hands on... and listen to it a lot.

Do take some time to really listen to the tunes you hear others play, identifying the separate phrases of the tune as it goes through its repetitions. Try to whistle (not with your instrument) or sing the tune with the recording, and get it into your head. Include all the ornamentation you can identify.

Get one of those 'slow-downer' programs if you can. It will help you get some of the timing and ornamentation figured out.

Keep the time with your foot. This is more important than you might think. Use a metronome or click-track to keep you honest while you practice.

Play along with recordings when you can, to get used to keeping up, and to get used to jumping back in if you get lost.

Play with other people when you can. It's loads more fun.

Biggest thing for when you are playing with other folks - Tune to them, or all tune to a tuner.

Play, practice, play some more... practice some more...

Stick with it.

Oddest thing i've learned - take a break from it once in a while - I recently took a break from playing very much at all for about two months (life has this annoying habit of throwing obstacles in your way)... after that break, even though I was rusty, I also was *better* at some things. I've noticed this a few times throughout my life.

Most important of all - have fun!

AlonE · Post by **AlonE** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:53 am

woww! 10 years! you already must be a Kevin kraford xD….! now in serious, you must play very calm, without hardships, I I delay in learning a song two weeks perfectly, do not have hardships, I enjoy every moment. it makes your recordings so that you are listened to and you seen your advances, that raises the car much considers. luck

shadeclan · Post by **shadeclan** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:12 am

We all want to get better. I, personally, probably will never be able to play anything super fast, certainly not anything like "Pigeon on the Gate", but I'm gonna keep on practicing because I enjoy it.

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:13 am

Annie had some good points. I've found for myself that often this "hump" or "wall" is caused by just thinking too hard or trying too hard. I don't think that means you need to put your whistle down, though that could be a good approach for some, but maybe try making sure that you are playing for fun just as much as you are playing for practice and skill development... even your casual tooting makes your fingers more and more comfortable on the whistle with each tune.
Ornamentation is a habit and a muscle memory just like fingering the notes. There are very few basic ornaments on the whistle and then there are combinations of those to create more elaborate ornaments. The key thing is to practice slowly and not rush it. Speed is not King. If you can't play well then you can't play well fast. I'd rather hear a good player at a modest speed than a mediocre player at lightning speed. Practice your most basic ornaments (cuts and taps) slowly and accurately and then when your fingers have learned them well, put them together. Practice rolls and other ornaments on every note of the whistle and then when you have to throw one into a tune it won't be so foreign.

Best wishes.

BillChin · Post by **BillChin** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:53 am

I am in a similar boat. I've been playing more than ten years. I am self conscious when I meet session players or bluegrass players, because I don't know their tunes, I can't play at speed.

For a while it bothered me and I made a modest effort towards learning some Irish tunes. It was maddening, frustrating, and not a lot of fun.

What did I decide? To forget about it, at least for now. I play the music I like to play, mostly original tunes. I tell myself that I am very good at what I do. That some folks on the other side of the fence might envy the substantial talent and body of work that I possess.

I often remind newcomers to the board to "enjoy your music." Without that, it isn't going to stick. It isn't a chore, it is a hobby that is supposed to be fun. Very few are going to be recording in a studio.

That said, if a person really wants to get better, there are many online resources, virtual sessions and the like, that there is more access than ever. Some of it is talent based. A person's manual dexterity, lung capacity, natural ear for music are a base. Some start from a low base and have to work three times as hard, as someone with a lot of natural talent. Whether it is worth all of that, is up to each person. For me the answer right now is, it's not worth it. I have what I have and it is a great. I have touched many people with my music in so many ways.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:35 pm

you might try Whistle This and get some feedback on your playing

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:40 pm

Peter Laban wrote:you might try Whistle This and get some feedback on your playing

Good advice. It's also easier to find minimally-ornamented versions of the tunes there.

Kerry · Post by **Kerry** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:40 pm

I purchased my first whistle in the late '90s, so it sounds as if we both started around the same time. For me, this was the first instrument that I ever attempted to learn and play. I too have gone through many periods of improvement, only to find myself stuck at a plateau - so I feel your pain.

Given my late start (and the law of averages) I try to be realistic in regards to my ability. I know that I am never going to be as good as Paddy Maloney, Kevin Crawford, etc. Let's face it, these guys are in a whole other league. Although I do understand the desire to improve, I would recomend working on your own style, and to make sure you "get the most" out of every note. I will take a tune played at a leisurly pace that sounds good over one played fast that sounds "muddy" any day.

One other thing, if you haven't discovered Micho Russell yet, I would highly recommend his CD titled "Ireland's Whistling Ambassador." Micho is regarded as one the greats of all time, and he is also noted for using ornamentation sparingly. Every time I listen to him I realize that he never wasted a note, and never put one in where it wasn't necessary.

Kerry

Carey · Post by **Carey** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:34 pm

Kerry wrote:Every time I listen to him I realize that he never wasted a note, and never put one in where it wasn't necessary.

That really sums it up for me. It's not about how many notes you play per unit time, but how you play them together in a string. Maybe great players can play fast if they choose, but when they play, it's not usually real fast. A non-whistle example that leaps to mind is Eric Clapton's guitar work. It's real easy to play most of his songs. It's really hard to sound like Claption.

myra · Post by **myra** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:38 am

I, too, have been stuck on learning by ear, and I'd like to second the recommendation to get some kind of slowdown software. I've been using Audacity (too lazy to figure out how to put links in here - it's www.audacity.com - it's free) and have found it very helpful - you can slow down a whole tune, or a section, and you can set it to play a selection over and over. Also, you can easily record yourself, if you want, and you can generate a click track, if you don't have a metronome, to play along with.

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:50 am

This is restating the obvious for most readers, but programs like Audacity also allow you to multi-track your recordings, (e.g. lay down a guitar rhthym, play your flute, whistle, or fiddle over that, and then add even more tracks). It's great practice for session playing, and it can be very addicting.

Jason Paul · Post by **Jason Paul** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:51 am

I just use the slow down feature built into Media Player.

Jason

arnie · Post by **arnie** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:41 pm

I'd say find a good whistler to watch over your shoulder. I a beginner, and got 5 lessons grom an Irish guy who has played from his childhood on. From listening to him and letting him teach me things giving me directions, I learned more than I can ever learn from a paper or even a recording I think. In a while I might take another set of lessons. Please try it, you won't regret it.

Blaydo · Post by **Blaydo** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:34 pm

If that's the tunebook by McCullough or whatever his name is, then I'm not surprised you're having a hard time keeping up with his ornamentation. To be honest I don't like anything about his playing style. I think he goes way overboard on his ornamentation especially considering the book is supposed to aimed at beginners. It's like he's just showing off his skills but to me he sounds terrible.

I think you'd be much better off learning your tunes from books like these from Waltons:
http://waltons.ie/shop/product_info.php ... ts_id=7801

Or from whistlethis.com as Peter said.