Controlling your whistle

[Gunslinger]

Terve, everybody!

Every now and then somebody states that Susatos have to be controlled. "As long as you can control it..." Blah! I'm getting sick n tired to read this over and over. And over once again. There's _nothing_ special about Susatos regarding to "control". With every single whistle you have to blow the instrument in tune or out of tune and that's just about it. When played in-tune most whistles produce certain volume level especially in the end of the upper register and that's also just about it. Now where's the control part? Really? Fogedaboudit!

You either play in tune or not but "control"? I'd really love to find out the one who came up with this susato-ctrl-thingy-bullsh#t concept. Why everybody just repeats the gospel and do not bother to think themselves? A whistle could be quiet by nature or it could be one loud muhfuh and if that is the case, how can one control it? Do you know some special ninja technique or Jedi mind trick you don't feel like sharing?

BR, Heikki Petäjistö

[fearfaoin]

Wow, I hate to feed a troll, but really this is just nonsense. Play a
clarinet for a few years and you'll know what controling a wind
instrument means. There is a lot you can do with breath pressure
and embouchure that will subtly change the tone of a whistle,
without changing the pitch. This is control. Read either of Grey
Larson's books for more info.

[Gunslinger]

Thanks for comments!

I, on the contrary like to feed you There's not much in common with sound production of clarinet and whistle and the same principles are not applicable. I understand that with reeds there _is_ a whole lot options to control the sound but with whistle there is not.

Pls read my post again and the kindly call me troll again if you feel like it! My post is all about not going with the herd but using your brain.

BR, Heikki Petäjistö

[Wanderer]

It's the "playing in tune" part that takes control. You yourself say that every whistle has to be blown into tune.

That, my friend, is breath control, and it takes a while to develop it. Some whistles require more of it than others. Susatos require more. Burkes require less.

Most beginners I've known have complained at how sucky Susatos are to play. Most experienced people I know are able to play them well. The difference? Years of breath control training.

Some argue that "easier playing" instruments remove some of your abiilty shade the notes and bring out subtle emotional characteristics in your playing. That's a matter of breath control, too. On a whistle like a Susato, it takes good control to bring out the best of the whistle, especially in the second octave. On a whistle like a Burke or a Sweetone, not so much shading can be done. Some people argue that the Burke and Sweetone therefore sound a little flat and mechanical as a result.

Are you putting forth the argument that there is no breath control required when playing a whistle, or that all whistles take the same amount of it? Seriously?

[fearfaoin]

There's not much in common with sound production of clarinet and whistle and the same principles are not applicable.

Though there are differences between a reed instrument and a
fipple flute, I play both whistle and clarinet, and I assure you
there are many similarities in technique. Even though you have
to approach embouchure control differently on a whistle, you
still affect tone using the embouchure like you can on a clarinet
(or basoon, or flute, or crumhorn). While the dimensions of
control may be different, the existance of control remains.

Pls read my post again and the kindly call me troll again if you feel like it!

I didn't realize "troll" might not have the same common Internet
usage overseas. I was not calling you a troll, I was calling your
post a troll. In webspeak, a troll is a post whose intent is to spark
controversy rather than discussion. So,"feeding a troll" is trying
to refute such a post even though you know that is going to fuel
the controversy. I apologize if I offended you.

[fearfaoin]

I'd really love to find out the one who came up with this susato-ctrl-thingy-bullsh#t concept.
...
Do you know some special ninja technique or Jedi mind trick you don't feel like sharing?

I sense much anger in this one. Anger leads to fear. Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to poorly played Susatos.

[crookedtune]

Poorly played Susatos lead to splitting headaches.

[Tony McGinley]

You are right in mentioning "sh**" Take no sh** here!!

No matter if its a Susato or a German Shepherd
- the important thing is to let it know -
who the boss is!!

[PhilO]

I think perhaps one difference is in how conscious we are of the breath control being exerted; I think it's less so with whistles. My daughter plays a reed instrument (clarinet) and has always been real conscious of what she has to do with her breath to get what she needs. On the whistle, I'm one of those who has shaken my head regarding all this Susato stuff. I think we just naturally tend to do what is required with different types of whistles without thinking about or putting into words in our own minds, beyond a tighter pursed lipped attack for upper octave, what we do breath-wise?

The whistles I remember most having to work on my approach were the Overton/Chieftain types. Now I can pretty much get used to any whistle quickly (which is not the same as being able to play any of them well). The toughest ever was made by a maker who shall not herein be named who concocted a piece of metal better suited for the fields of Agincourt than for playing and a bore size probably too large for a soprano D. Finally even got that to sound notes close to in some kind of tune, but alas really not worth the effort.

Philo

[Ramin]

No matter if its a Susato or a German Shepherd
- the important thing is to let it know -
who the boss is!!

That looks like a baldheaded woman scolding a dog.

[peeplj]

I've put together a quick-n-dirty demo of a Susato SB played with breath and embouchure control vs without it. It's not the tutor Nano was wanting of how to do it, but at least it shows it can be done.

I'll put together a "how-to" later.

Hre's the audo portion of the comparison:

http://flutesite.com/susato/susatocomp.mp3

Here's an image of the end of the B part played without breath or embouchure control:



And here's the same portion of the B part played with breath and embouchure control:



I'll get the how-to portion put together later when I have more time and I can really concentrate. This is really just a proof-of-concept to address the idea that it can't be done.

--James

[Congratulations]

James, you're a class act. Lovely demonstration.

[Aanvil]

Thanx James.

[Mitch]

Great demo James!

In addition to this, I had a very edifying recording session with an experienced player yesterday in which he demonstrated at least a dozen techniques for controling different whistles - some to do with breath and mouth control, but many also about pulling notes into line with special attention to the preceding note - there was a lot of talk of pipers' techniques closing down lower holes and using different cut tap and roll configurations - different for each whistle, and he could tame them in quick order and play up to speed!

That one session has given me a year of practice to even begin to use some of it. It all reminds me how noob I am at all this!

[peeplj]

Almost any whistle will play better with good breath control and good embouchure technique.

Sure, you can play a Burke or a cheapie without these, but why would you want to? The whistle sounds so much better, and you can do so much more with it, when you control it instead of it controlling you.

--James