Whistle making question

PeterB · Post by **PeterB** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:09 am

Hey y'all,

I've been idly turning a few whistles from various hardwoods, to see if I could do it. One persistent problem I encounter is an unplayable open (unfingered) note in the second register - for example a 2nd register C# on a D-whistle. The other notes are clear and in tune, and the low register C# is fine. I can get the high C# if I cover the lowest hole while I blow - but hey, who wants to do that?
Generally, the instruments have a 1/2 inch bore, cylindrical.

Anyone have an ideas that might help?

Thanks,

Peter Barnes

syn whistles · Post by **syn whistles** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:51 pm

It's not a common phenomenon, but it does happen sometimes on an otherwise excellent whistle,and I'm not exactly sure what the cause is. Just as a matter of interest,I wonder how many players would be prepared to adapt their fingering for that top C# to OOO OOX without a great deal of angst?

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:27 pm

Look at the holes inside the tone tube. Did you remove all bits of wood that sometimes cling to the inside of the hole? Beore drilling did you check if the tone tube will hold air. Some woods are more porous than others, and if the inside of the tube has not been oiled to seal it. There will be strange notes. Almound oil is used for sealing the pours and to preserve the wood.

PeterB · Post by **PeterB** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:25 am

Thanks very much for the response. I have been clearing out the various bits of cruft under the holes with a small rotary grinder inserted into the hole - useful for undercutting as well. The tubes are airtight, although I appreciate the almond oil hint.
I wonder if it's a fipple issue. On the 1/2 diam. bore, the window is .3 x .17 inches. How wide can the window be?
Or maybe it's the spread of the finger holes? It's a mystery (and I am enjoying trying to figure it out).

Any further input appreciated!

Peter B.

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:33 pm

Happens on my large-bore aluminum C, but I just thought it was a length/bore issue. Guess I was wrong.

Good luck in your quest. 0.3x0.17 inch window? Hmmmm... let's wait for more makers to chime in.

BTW, I don't mind having to change fingerings for that one whistle, except for cuts from the goofy note.

lordofthestrings · Post by **lordofthestrings** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:02 pm

What is your fipple like? Any pictures? Sometimes, if you angle them too steeply/shallowly (...huh?) you will lose notes and have other problems. Also, how wide is your fipple opening? Too wide, and you will lose the air columb on notes like the C's. I used to add adjustable baffels to mine to combat this.

Gunslinger · Post by **Gunslinger** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:11 am

Terve, PeterB!

That is a strange problem you have. On most of my whistles (both self made and commercially available) you just have to learn right fingerings fo those highest notes (2nd C# and third D) and on most cases the third D is a bit off if I close the bottom hole (oxxoox) and sometimes it works if I use oxxoxo and on some I use oxxooo and stabilise the whistle with pinky instead of ring finger.

It is a bit annoying to change the stabilising finger especially with lower (bigger) whistles because of finger spread issues, but with highs you may consider stabilising with pinky.

Is your hole placement always the same? You could try a bit different configurations and see if that works for you. I don't think graininess or smoothness is so relevant in this case. But you can be happy with your whistles, since you have found a way to "force" them to play in tune and that is what counts at the end of the day!

BR, Heikki Petäjistö

Key_of_D · Post by **Key_of_D** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:33 am

I almost exclusively use OOO OOX for fingering C sharp. Though rarely I sometimes use OOO XXO if the tune sees fit. OOO OOO doesn't work for me because my pinky doesn't reach the end of the whistle comfortably. So that's me. But I've yet to play a whistle that has the sort of problem you're mentioning with that upper C sharp.

-Eric

PeterB · Post by **PeterB** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:56 pm

...still having (after more tedious failures, which is drag in hardwood!) this problem overblowing the unfingered (C#) note.

A corollary symptom - in the first octave, playing a C-natural with the fingering 0XX 000 produces something closer to a B, not a C nat.

I know it's not a head-joint/fipple issue - substituting the lower joint for a working one on the same headjoint works fine.

My only working theory - I'm starting the tone holes too far up on the tube, or the holes are spread too far apart. Maybe the tone holes are too small?

The high B sounds, but is weaker then the lower notes of the 2nd octave.

Help!

PB

Gunslinger · Post by **Gunslinger** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:45 am

Terve, PeterB!

Now I know where the problem lies. From your description I would say that your top hole is too small. Try to make it bigger until you get in tune C nat with 0xx 000. (pls check if you get in tune C nat with 0x0 000 then I'm sure this is the problem. Another symptom associated with this is that your C# is a tad quieter than the other notes.)

When drilling holes, always check that both octaves work or can be blown to work!

Try this and come back and tell if that helps!

Br, Heikki Petäjistö

ctilbury · Post by **ctilbury** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:47 am

I have had this problem. It seems to be related to the way that the blade cuts the air stream. What is weird is that the higher notes seem fine. Just that one note seems more sensitive. I think that placing the blade closer to the center of the tube may help. Not very much, though. Maybe only .01" or so.

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