Whistlesmiths: external vs. internal tuning slide

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Gunslinger
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Whistlesmiths: external vs. internal tuning slide

Post by Gunslinger »

Terve, everybody!

I did some experimental whistlework with one of my PVC low F. I cut it in two and inserted an internal tuning slide made of smaller metal pipe that fit snugly inside the whistle bore. I was a bit surprised to find out that bottom F went a bit low, otherwise the lower octave was OK _but_ the upper end of upper octave was way flat. Only the first notes were acceptable and even they needed to be blown in tune. I have made couple of "normal" external tuning slides with no problem whatsoever. Can somebody explain what happened? Why doesn't the extra volume added with external slide have any effect when reduced volume by internal slide screws the whistle up?

All this trouble just for looks: I thought internal (=invisible when not used) slide looks cooler than external ;-)

What is my best option on this matter?
1. Get larger bore piping to make external slide?
2. Acetone trick with new fipple?
3. Thinner walled internal slide?
4. Something else, what?

BR,
Heikki Petäjistö
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Mitch
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Post by Mitch »

All I can say Heikki, is measure the new internal dimensions imposed by the internal slide (when bell note is in-tune) and work-out the average of the new bore, then go to the flute-o-mat and find out how this new dimension will affect the positioning of the tone-holes.

On top of that, (without doing any math) I would intuit that you have effectively made the bore reverse-conical which would probably accentuate the cylidrical tendancy to go flat on the second register - OK for reeds, not OK for fipples as fipples have the added physics of the ambient air-pressure and the energy balance that affects the tube-shift caused by air forcing the resonant tube to displace towards the bell.

A solution might be to rebate the space that the slide will occupy (hence not changing the intial conditions very much) - which will minimise the bore volume change as you tune down (or up). Some kind of enlarging-drum might be emplyed on PVC to sand-out the rebate - make sure you have an adequate filter to not breathe the fumes and dust! Perhaps a cylindrical bit of wood might be made with a longitudinal slot to hold a strip of sandpaper (whose additional circumference has been calculated) - perhaps also, with a short taper to lead it in (the sand paper will conform to the contour under pressure of drilling) - attach it to a sanding disk mandrel with the disk removed and a long bolt through the centre of the wooden drum - attach to a hand-drill chuck - insert and enlarge (largely self-centering). Otherwise, get an appropriate internal-diameter cutting tool and do it on a lathe.

Keep in mind that tuning slides are very aproximate in their affect - the proportionate change in tone-hole position is not achieved through a tuning slide and inaccuracies will occur as the slide is moved.

Once again - do the math, use the flute-o-mat and get to understand the non-linear relationship between bore and tone-hole positioning. How those guys got to encode how much finger fills a tone-hole I will never understand - it could be a catenary but the real world would dissagree nine times out of ten!

Now you have a disembodied head, you are licensed to play-around with bodies <snigger> :) Above all - have fun!
All the best!

mitch
http://www.ozwhistles.com
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Thomas-Hastay
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Post by Thomas-Hastay »

Gunslinger...

When you inserted the slide inside, you reduced the inner diameter (bore perturbation) and shifted the harmonic anti-nodes, used for tonehole placement, and your F note went flat. The new position for the F note now being higher with the present tonehole to low (flat). This effect is compounded in the upper registers.

Recorders do this with a tapered conical bore to compress the spaceing between toneholes and to match/tune registers. If you make the tuning slide match the size of the inner bore, it will return to normal (but not perfect) pitch.
"The difference between Genius and stupidity, is that Genius has its limits" (Albert Einstein)
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Dave Parkhurst
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Post by Dave Parkhurst »

Hey Thomas.... think you should reveal the secret of the number on your signature?
Dave
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OBrien
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Post by OBrien »

It's the Golden Ratio- shows up a lot in nature, architecture and art.
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John S
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Post by John S »

The ratios of the Fibonacci series converge on the Golden ratio, which makes it the fastest route to chaos for coupled oscillators.
http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R. ... i/fib.html
http://facta.junis.ni.ac.yu/facta/macar ... 401-06.pdf

John S
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Thomas-Hastay
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Post by Thomas-Hastay »

Yes, The "Golden Ratio". It is also the fractal manipulator in the musical harmonic sequence.

Sorry, I've been immersed in Wolfram's Book on Fractal mathematics. All of our senses use frequency for perception and the patterns are in the Fibonachi sequence. Our Genetic switches use fractal mathematics in the sequence too. I guess i'm trying to read the mind of god (?) like everyone else on the planet.

Note of interest...
The octave scale has 12 notes and the 3rd register/harmonic is a 3rd (3rd register = trinity?)

Using a pythagorian triangle ...3 squared + 12 squared = 153(the number of fish in the parable St John v20.) The square root is 12.368

That is the exact number of lunar months,days,hours and minutes in a solar year!!! AND the exact scale range of an Ocarina!!!

Music of the Spheres!!!
"The difference between Genius and stupidity, is that Genius has its limits" (Albert Einstein)
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