Another 'which whistle suits my needs' topic

[Cayden]

I agree with Dralore. A musician deserves the best instrument he or she can possibly afford. After all, you experience and play the notes every day. Even with a whistle, a traditional instrument, why play out of tune, or with the buzz that many factory instruments have? If you can spend $7 on a lunch, why not put pennies in a can for a Burke, or Humphrey, or Hoover?

I don't think you quite got my point. I love the juxtaposition of a $150 whistle which is way, way beyond anything I would ever consider paying for a whistle and the 'it won't break the bank' that invariably seems to accompany the recommendation.

If you like your Burkes, fine, go for it, do as you may you won't hear me objecting but do not pretend they come cheap or even that they offer you an increase in quality over lesser priced whistles equal to their increase in price.

You should get an instrument that matches your abilities, you're right there but you should be realistic and not blame faults caused by deficiencies in your playing on the instrument and pretend they'll go away as soon as you throw money at the problem. The most expensive instrument is not necessarily the best for you and an instrument that is fool proof (i.e. one that will take any amount of abuse and still sound acceptable) doesn't set you on a road to learning more and developing essential skills like breathcontrol.

[cutterpup]

I agree with Dralore. A musician deserves the best instrument he or she can possibly afford. After all, you experience and play the notes every day. Even with a whistle, a traditional instrument, why play out of tune, or with the buzz that many factory instruments have? If you can spend $7 on a lunch, why not put pennies in a can for a Burke, or Humphrey, or Hoover?

I don't think you quite got my point. I love the juxtaposition of a $150 whistle which is way, way beyond anything I would ever consider paying for a whistle and the 'it won't break the bank' that always seems to come with it.
If you like your Burkes, fine, go for it, do as you may you won't hear me objecting but do not pretend they come cheap or even that they offer you an increase in quality over lesser priced whistles equal to their increase in price.
You should get an instrument that matches your abilities, you're right there but you should be realistic and not blame faults caused by deficiencies in your playing on the instrument and pretend they'll go away as soon as you throw money at the problem. The most expensive instrument in not necessarily the best for you and an instrument that is fool proof (i.e. one that will take any amount of abuse and still sound acceptable) doesn't set you on a road to learning more and developing essential skills like breathcontrol.

Sheesh, this is starting to sound like the debates over on the recorders board. One person inquires about a wood recorder that "won't break the bank" and some of the fundies insist that he might as well stick to plastic because the only wood recorders worth having are $1000.00 handmade ones and that the factory ones are cr*p.
IMHO it is frustrating and hard to learn proper technique in playing any instrument if that instrument is faulty to begin with. How many strings players start with the cheapest they can find just to "see if they like playing and to learn on" and then give up because there was no way they could get a poor instrument to sound good? I can see where $150.00 for a whistle can be considered expensive (three of my recorders cost about that, one quite a bit more)in a world where no more than $50.00 seems the norm. But, I have read enough on this board that even as a beginner I can appreciate that not all whistle manufacturers have good quality control. I have started my own penny can fund for a "slightly" better whistle than I have. Not that it will make me a better player, but so that I can learn to play better without having to compensate for an instrument that may or may not be a good example of it's breed. As a beginner I can't really tell the difference and may form bad habits trying to compensate for a flaw in the whistle.

[Cayden]

I can see where $150.00 for a whistle can be considered expensive (three of my recorders cost about that, one quite a bit more)in a world where no more than $50.00 seems the norm. But, I have read enough on this board that even as a beginner I can appreciate that not all whistle manufacturers have good quality control. I have started my own penny can fund for a "slightly" better whistle than I have. Not that it will make me a better player, but so that I can learn to play better without having to compensate for an instrument that may or may not be a good example of it's breed. As a beginner I can't really tell the difference and may form bad habits trying to compensate for a flaw in the whistle.

I absolute terms 150 is not a great deal of money but there's relativity, you won't go out buying a 150 box of matches either would you.

The parrotting of the 'quality control' thing is typical on this forum, bear in mind though this almost invariably comes from people who are raw beginners themselves, often without any real means of assessing an instrument. Just as the man complaining in this thread obviously (judging from the recordings he posted) lacks the control over the whistle that would enable him to play it in tune (hence the comparison to the beginning fiddleplayer I made above)

That said: yes whistles do vary but unfortunately they do so often in the higher priceranges too (some makers are more consistent than others though) One of my neighbours is one of the world's finest whistleplayers, she has been given one of the $150 whisltes which is reported to have belonged to Joannie Madden. She won't touch it though, and is embarrassed enough about it, because she feels the thing isn't properly tuned. So in general she happily plays whistles that cost a fiver (although I got her a Sindt recently which she is very happy with although, and there's variability again, she thinks my own Sindt which she used recording her CD is a much nicer one).

[cutterpup]

The parrotting of the 'quality control' thing is typical on this forum, bear in mind though this almost invariably comes from people who are raw beginners themselves, often without any real means of assessing an instrument. That said: yes whistles do vary but unfortunately they do so often in the higher priceranges too (some makers are more consistent than others though)

With your points well taken I have but one question for the board:
Which make of whistle could be considered the most consistent and reliable for under $50.00? If it turns out to be my Original Clarke that would be great. I already own it and can put the pennies in the can into something else.

[BlackDeath]

Just as the man complaining in this thread obviously (judging from the recordings he posted) lacks the control over the whistle that would enable him to play it in tune (hence the comparison to the beginning fiddleplayer I made above)

May I ask you how you can be sure that it is my incompetence to play in tune, rather than just the whistle being 'bad' ? I can tell you that, for instance, my (ex- ) whistle teacher, one of the most respected whitlers in Belgium (probably thé most respected) has played it and considers it 'terribly out of tune', among several other (semi-) professional musicians with perfect or very good relative pitch.
I am amazed, to say the least, that you can judge by those 2 postings that it is me who is unable to play the whistle rather than the whistle being out of tune :)

I've just tried 'playing' it in tune - and sure, when I blow harder it gets a bit more sharp, but this whistle isn't meant to blow so hard, imo. It is supposed to be soft, 'sweet' (hence sweetone, I presume). And even then, some notes (e.g. the B, A and Fs, for as far as I can hear with my limited experience / sense for pitch) are clearly not in tune with the other ones when blown just as hard, and can't match the accordion notes no matter how soft or hard I blow...
As far as I can tell, that should be proof enough that it is the whistle that is out of tune, not my incapability of playing it.

Still, I thank everyone for the advice and interesting content.
I am thinking of buying a Humphrey now...
Oh well I honestly don't know... I think I'll also ask ppl from our session community what they think would be best for me to do... although I'm afraid they will probably swear to overton :)

[Cayden]

Which make of whistle could be considered the most consistent and reliable for under $50.00?

Maybe one gone though the hands of Jerry Freeman would be a safe option I think, the mellodog seems popular enough on the forum. Although really, I see dozens of children go to their whistleclass every week with their off the shelf cheap whistles and there are no problems there at all, they sound lovely on them without a problem. My twelve year old doesn't sound any better on a tweaked or expensive whislte than he does on his own one that cost a fiver.

May I ask you how you can be sure that it is my incompetence to play in tune, rather than just the whistle being 'bad' ?

Fair enough maybe I was a bit harsh on that one, I think Sweetones are very unpleasant whistles and the two I ever had (aprticularly the C) were the worst tuned whistles I have ever had. I do think I could hear though there's a lot of room for improvement in the way you blow your whistle and I think you'll find the tuning will magically improve as your skills grow and you're better able to control the intonation of separate notes.

[Dralore]

Wow, didn't think a phrase would heat the room like this. Gotta love people who are passionate about their whistle and beliefs. Burke whistles are in tune better than most that I have heard or played. I personally like Fred Rose whistles but he said $150 or less so I did not recommend a rose. Being what it is on the scale of pricing, $150 is not "breaking the bank" nor is it an obsurd ammount to pay for a good whistle or any instrument for that matter. I understand relativity to the market. No I would not pay $150 for a box of matches but then again I also do not see people like Matt Molloy or Seamus Egan going to concerts with a $50 flute. One can get a $50.00 flute on ebay made in Pakistand but I would gather that most players would rather have a Murray or a Wilkes in their hands or even a M&E. I have played quite a few whistles under $20 and they are not bad. The tweaked ones are better in my humble opinion. Freeman makes great tweaked whistles as does O'Briain. Black Death asked for recommendations on a better grade of a whistle. Burkes are a better grade whistle than a factory Feadog or Clarke in terms of consistancy, tone and tuning.

Oh well, I guess we all have our opinions and love to share them with the rest of the world. Thats one of the things that make this a great place to be.

[Cayden]

No I would not pay $150 for a box of matches but then again I also do not see people like Matt Molloy or Seamus Egan going to concerts with a $50 flute.

I have seen Matt Molloy play a 4 euro Generation whistle on stage though.

[Wombat]

I think that, as Peter suggests, the better you get, the greater your ability to blow a whistle into tune and retain reasonable balance. That said, before you reach that stage you will learn more quickly and sound better to yourself and others if you don't have to work too hard to stay in tune. Of course, you still have to learn breath control—focussed practice is much more important than anything else and somebody who didn't practice or learn properly would sound lousy on a $1,000 whistle, if there are any. And I certainly think there is such a thing as a whistle which is so badly out of tune it isn't worth the effort required to persevere with it. That can be true for reasons of tonal or volume balance or responsiveness as well as tuning. But beware: I've played whistles worth several hundred dollars that I wouldn't persevere with for one reason or another. I've played off the shelf Clarkes and Generations, bought sound unheard, which sound fine to me and Gen-style whistles sit around the house and get played regularly.

I'd also agree with Peter that, under $50, a Jerry-tweaked is your best bet. I have a complete set of his tweaked Generations and while there is some variability—there is no matter what you buy—they are very consistently good. If you can't play a Jerry-tweaked in tune, I'll bet the problem is you.

If you like highly responsive, beautifully balanced, well in tune Gen style whistles that play like Gens, and you have the money, do try a Humphrey. You won't be disappointed. You can get an Eb tube to go with the same head you use on a D for only slightly more so the price comes down quite a bit the more you do this. A D/Eb set would come in at about $50 each and that is great value.

[cutterpup]

I think that, as Peter suggests, the better you get, the greater your ability to blow a whistle into tune and retain reasonable balance. That said, before you reach that stage you will learn more quickly and sound better to yourself and others if you don't have to work too hard to stay in tune.

That's basically what I had been thinking. I'd rather have a good, inexpensive "workhorse" whistle that I can rely on to give me consistent results. This way I can concentrate on learning the breath control, etc that I need and be confident that problems I encounter are ME and not the whistle. Of course cheaper is better I only put in the $50.00 because that is the limit of what I'd pay for a "practice" recorder.

[Wombat]

I think that, as Peter suggests, the better you get, the greater your ability to blow a whistle into tune and retain reasonable balance. That said, before you reach that stage you will learn more quickly and sound better to yourself and others if you don't have to work too hard to stay in tune.

That's basically what I had been thinking. I'd rather have a good, inexpensive "workhorse" whistle that I can rely on to give me consistent results. This way I can concentrate on learning the breath control, etc that I need and be confident that problems I encounter are ME and not the whistle. Of course cheaper is better I only put in the $50.00 because that is the limit of what I'd pay for a "practice" recorder.

Whatever you buy, you're still going to have to learn to play it well and that means getting used to it amongst other things. I've heard some people come on this board and say, I've bought brand X and I noticed a 500% improvement immediately. Eh ...right! If you do buy a whistle that especially suits you, you'll initially sense a big improvement. But after two weeks you'll be your same old self again, unfortunately. What's more, if you do find a whistle that really suits you and you stick with it and go to the next stage, you might well find that old discarded whistle doesn't play so badly when you pick it up later. I don't know what's going on for these things to happen, but I bet I'm not the only one who's noticed them.

[Craig Stuntz]

No I would not pay $150 for a box of matches but then again I also do not see people like Matt Molloy or Seamus Egan going to concerts with a $50 flute.

I have seen Matt Molloy play a 4 euro Generation whistle on stage though.

...and Paddy Moloney. And Phil Smillie. And...

Brian Finnegan plays Olwell bamboo flutes which cost under $100, if you can find one. Granted an Olwell flute, even a cheap one, is a different sort of beast than a Generation, but still...

I can't agree that the quality control issue is invariably raised by neophytes. I've personally heard it, unprompted, from Colin Melville (Tannahill Weavers) and I've seen it in an interview with Paddy Moloney. But the Generation quality issues tend to involve the plastic bits and aren't really tuning-related, as far as I can see, so all this is probably off-topic in terms of the original question.

[Craig Stuntz]

Whatever you buy, you're still going to have to learn to play it well and that means getting used to it amongst other things. I've heard some people come on this board and say, I've bought brand X and I noticed a 500% improvement immediately. Eh ...right!

Whistles do have distinctly different sounds. I think a lot of the claims of improvement are related to that. I think the Mack Hoover fipple I use on a Feadog tube sounds much nicer than the original Feadog fipple, so I guess it could say it improved my sound.

[Wombat]

Whatever you buy, you're still going to have to learn to play it well and that means getting used to it amongst other things. I've heard some people come on this board and say, I've bought brand X and I noticed a 500% improvement immediately. Eh ...right!

Whistles do have distinctly different sounds. I think a lot of the claims of improvement are related to that. I think the Mack Hoover fipple I use on a Feadog tube sounds much nicer than the original Feadog fipple, so I guess it could say it improved my sound.

I don't deny that getting an instrument better suited to you will lead to improvement. But I think that the impression of absolutely huge improvement overnight is an illusion.

BTW, I don't think of Olwell bamboo flutes as at all comparable to mass-produced whistles. I have an F and a D and they are beautifully crafted instruments. They are cheap in part because of the material and lack of tuning slide, etc. and in part because Chris sells them much cheaper than he needs to in order to make quality instruments available to people on a tight budget, I think. You don't have to search for a 'good' Olwell.

[Craig Stuntz]

BTW, I don't think of Olwell bamboo flutes as at all comparable to mass-produced whistles.

Me, either (except in terms of being relatively inexpensive), as noted in the post.