O.T. Reformed or secret smokers help!!!!

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:39 pm

toasty wrote:I could go on for hours about this and that, about Nicotine addiction ( a lie )

http://www.nida.nih.gov/researchreports ... #addictive
Recent research has shown in fine detail how nicotine acts on the brain to produce a number of behavioral effects. Of primary importance to its addictive nature are findings that nicotine activates the brain circuitry that regulates feelings of pleasure, the so-called reward pathways. A key brain chemical involved in mediating the desire to consume drugs is the neurotransmitter dopamine, and research has shown that nicotine increases the levels of dopamine in the reward circuits.
...
Scientific research is also beginning to show that nicotine may not be the only psychoactive ingredient in tobacco. Using advanced neuroimaging technology, scientists can see the dramatic effect of cigarette smoking on the brain and are finding a marked decrease in the levels of monoamineoxidase (MAO), an important enzyme that is responsible for breaking down dopamine. The change in MAO must be caused by some tobacco smoke ingredient other than nicotine, since we know that nicotine itself does not dramatically alter MAO levels. The decrease in two forms of MAO, A and B, then results in higher dopamine levels and may be another reason that smokers continue to smoke - to sustain the high dopamine levels that result in the desire for repeated drug use.

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/fact09.html
In February 2000, the Royal College of Physicians published a report on nicotine addiction which concluded that “Cigarettes are highly efficient nicotine delivery devices and are as addictive as drugs such as heroin or cocaine.”

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter. ... ifier=4753
What causes nicotine addiction?
Nicotine is an addictive drug. It causes changes in the brain that make people want to use it more and more. In addition, addictive drugs cause unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. The good feelings that result when an addictive drug is present — and the bad feelings when it's absent — make breaking any addiction very difficult. Nicotine addiction has historically been one of the hardest addictions to break.

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksAAddiction.html
this natural insecticide's chemical structure is so similar to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine that once inside the brain it fits a host of chemical locks permitting it direct and indirect control over the flow of more than 200 neurochemicals.
...
There was only one problem. All the physical changes engineered a new tailored neurochemical sense of normal built entirely upon the presence of nicotine. Now, any attempt to stop using it would come with a risk of intermittent temporary hurtful anxieties and powerful mood shifts. A true chemical addiction was born.

Or, how bout my common sense definition: If you desperately want to quit something, and can't, you're addicted. I'm not addicted to chocolate truffles. Even though I love them, I haven't had one in nearly a year. On the other hand, I was only able to quit cigs after several attempts.

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:15 pm

toasty said:

I could go on for hours about this and that, about Nicotine addiction ( a lie ), about Smoke the Toxin - because Tobbacco farmers put nasty pesticides on the poor innocent little trees and ...doncha know if you could just get one without all that chemical on it then you could safely smoke till you die at 100 years old etc etc etc.
end quote

Anyone who thinks the chemicals sprayed on tobacco is the main problem hasn't worked in tobacco.

This year (since we sold the farm) is the first year we've not grown burley tobacco. We really don't saturate the stuff with chemicals.Two chemicals- One to combat blue mold sprayed on the ground in the tobacco bed where the seed is started, the same chemical mixed with the water used when they are set(transplanted in the field) and after topping(cutting off the flowering bloom) the tobacco is sprayed to stop "suckers"(little extra stalks that will grow from the base of some of the leaves. Most folks use disease resistant strains that don't have to have a lot of sprays.

The nicotine in the tobacco is there whether it's sprayed or not, and so is the tar. Here's how I know.

Now there are different ways to harvest tobacco depending on the type. Pull the leaves off the stalk in the field as they mature and "flue cure"(this kind is grown down south) or like we do around here with burley- cut the stalks, spear them on a stick and stand them in the field for several days, then hang it in the barn to cure for several months.

After that the tobacco is "graded", and this can only be done when there is lots of humidity in the air to make the cured leaves pliable enough to handle without breaking- Each leaf is pulled off the stalk by hand and sorted as to type and quality(grade). We use to make 5 grades many years ago, now the buyers want only 3- bright- large pretty tan colored leaves, ground- ragged brown leaves at the base of the stalk, and tips- red leaves from the top. We use to tie tobacco in "hands" then they were packed on large (4' across)flat, wooden baskets and taken to the tobacco market. Now days the loose graded leaves are baled by hand in 100lb bales to be taken to market.

You stand in a cold barn, pulling thousands of leaves all day. You do not need a cigarette. That's because of absorbing it through your hands. The palms are covered with black "gum" and that's where you're getting the nicotine. I've known of non-smokers who were nauseated because of this absorbtion while "working" tobacco.

here's pictures if you're that intrested-

http://www.burleytobacco.com/website/li ... +of+Growth[/img]

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:06 pm

Wanderer wrote:
toasty wrote:I could go on for hours about this and that, about Nicotine addiction ( a lie )
http://www.nida.nih.gov/researchreports ... #addictive
Recent research has shown in fine detail how nicotine acts on the brain to produce a number of behavioral effects. Of primary importance to its addictive nature are findings that nicotine activates the brain circuitry that regulates feelings of pleasure, the so-called reward pathways. A key brain chemical involved in mediating the desire to consume drugs is the neurotransmitter dopamine, and research has shown that nicotine increases the levels of dopamine in the reward circuits.
[...]
Or, how bout my common sense definition: If you desperately want to quit something, and can't, you're addicted. I'm not addicted to chocolate truffles. Even though I love them, I haven't had one in nearly a year. On the other hand, I was only able to quit cigs after several attempts.

I have to wonder why, after 28 years of inhaling smoke--the last 10 as a smoker, ending up at 2 packs of unfilterd Camels daily, I didn't feel any effects when I quit smoking.

I certainly had trouble quitting. I used to quit and toss half a carton of cigarettes into the trash, then start up again a few days later. This happened so often that my frugal wife started pulling them out of the trashcan and saving them for when I'd start up again.

My theory is that I was "psychologically" addicted, not physically addicted. Self hypnosis, talking back to cigarette ads, and deep breathing undercut my mental dependence, and it simply evaporated. One day I couldn't go an hour without a cigarette. The next day, I couldn't bring myself to inhale enough to get one lit. I even had trouble inhaling when I was around smokers. I never had the slightest craving after that day. I wasn't nervous or irritable. My appetite did improve after that, but I didn't suddenly double my food intake. I was able to breathe through my nose, which I thought was pretty cool.

I can't say that some people don't become addicted, just that I don't think that I was. It may be that there's something funny about my brain (no snide remarks here, thanks), because I've tried pot and alcohol and found them both uninteresting, even though I can feel the effects. Actually, it's the effects that I don't like. I like the taste of some wines, but I don't think that it's enough to compensate for getting dizzy.

McHaffie · Post by **McHaffie** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:08 pm

I smoked "eclipse" cigarettes for about a month and then just quit. They're a bit expensive, depending on where you go to get them. I found a place locally that sold them for regular name brand price.

They are the cigarettes that don't burn down past about a 1/4" and just heat a pocket of tobacco. They're actually a pretty smooth smoke... you get mostly water vapor and tiny amounts of tar or nicotine. After about a week there was a noticeable difference in the amount of even wanting a cigarette and after a few weeks I just decided I could stand to stop.

It wasn't very difficult either (compared to previous attempts, oh sheesh!) took about 3 days or so of just getting ready for one and saying "oh yeah, I've quit and don't have any... I don't need one anyway" toughed it out and went on.

It's an option anyway...

Take care,
John

pixyy · Post by **pixyy** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:05 am

Darwin wrote: My theory is that I was "psychologically" addicted, not physically addicted. Self hypnosis, talking back to cigarette ads, and deep breathing undercut my mental dependence, and it simply evaporated. One day I couldn't go an hour without a cigarette. The next day, I couldn't bring myself to inhale enough to get one lit. I even had trouble inhaling when I was around smokers. I never had the slightest craving after that day. I wasn't nervous or irritable. My appetite did improve after that, but I didn't suddenly double my food intake. I was able to breathe through my nose, which I thought was pretty cool.

I can't say that some people don't become addicted, just that I don't think that I was. It may be that there's something funny about my brain (no snide remarks here, thanks), because I've tried pot and alcohol and found them both uninteresting, even though I can feel the effects. Actually, it's the effects that I don't like. I like the taste of some wines, but I don't think that it's enough to compensate for getting dizzy.

I believe a habit is also an addiction: an addiction to a set behavioural pattern or print. Once you have repeated something many times it is taken over into 'automatic-mode'. The program will just run itself...

Perhaps it is different things in different people that trigger or motivate the habit in the first place: peer pressure, insecurity, nerves, boredom... anything really.

So far I have a 14 year smoking record

in that time I stopped twice: once for a period of 2 years and the second time for a period of almost a year. I liked the idea in an earlier post to think of it as practice.

A smoke gives me a break (always smoked rollies): I need to go outside, both at work and at home and it helps me to have a distance from what I'm doing. It gives me a rest that I would otherwise not provide for myself - I'd just go on and on...
Both times I took up smoking again was in times when my life was simply overcrowded with new things. I lacked overview and could not find the quietness to take some time for myself. That's where smoking came up - almost as a defiant statement of independece, whereas before it had not been much of a problem:
I slept better, woke up more refreshed, tasted more, had more air and energy....

I think there's a lesson for me here....

cheers,
Jeroen

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:19 am

How appropriate. I am reembarking on the same quest again for the third time in a year. Probably the 10th time in the past 5 years.

I've discovered the gum is the only thing that keeps me from being a homicidal maniac. The real problem for me is the hand to mouth stuff and the physical associations with activities.

Good luck to everyone who's trying.

McHaffie · Post by **McHaffie** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:53 am

geek4music wrote:... The real problem for me is the hand to mouth stuff and the physical associations with activities....

That's why the eclipse cigarettes helped me so much. So little nicotine (probably less than the gum) ... no smoky, stinky after smell in yourself clothes, hair, or house, etc.

BUT, only use what works for you. Just an idea.

- John

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:27 am

I can't believe how easily some of you quit.

IIRC from my reading, nicotine is more addictive than heroin. At least the success rate at quitting heroin is much higher than the success rate at quitting tobacco. It has recently been tied to bladder cancer, BTW, which my brother has (he didn't smoke nearly as long as I did).

I started at 6 years old, started quitting at 16, finally succeeded Jan 8, 1991, so after all that time, I lost count of the attempts.

I think I may now be able to quit quitting smoking....

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:28 am

toasty wrote:It depends on whether you really want to quit and if you are willing to work on some program.

You can forget about patches and gum etc - since your addiction has very little to do with Nicotine - in fact your body is telling you over and over that it does NOT LIKE Nicotine.

One way that works well is the cold turkey method; though you'd best remove yourself from society for a couple of weeks while the anger subsides as surely it will.

The idea is to breathe when ever you feel like lighting a cigarette and let your nervous system take over for a change. Just breathe slowly and deep then out slowly. After a few of those you wont desire the cigarette anymore.

Funny but true after a few hours of that you will begin to wonder how on earth you ever began consuming the vomit cancer crap that is called tobbacco!

Other benefits - air is free and your body loves the effect of peace and a return of your mental faculties ..eg attention span, reckoning.

I read on one site that we start either because we grew up in a smokers' home or through peer pressure, NOT because we want to get high off of Nicotine. In my case it was the secondhand smoke that got into my body poisoning me at an early age.

The other thing you MUST do is not restart smoking after you detoxify your body -about 5 years.

A really good reason to quit!

It would be kinder to yourself to take a dose of something final instead of slowly poisoning yourself to death over a number of years as well as those you love and share your life with.

What a crock! Just breathe - yeah right. Scientific studies have proven that cigarettes are more physiologically addictive than cocaine.

I will support your contention that cold turkey (no pills, patches, gum, etc.) is the most reliable long-term cessation plan - but it's not as simple as "just breathe instead." (I know of two smokers who went to the doctor for prescription medications to help relieve anxiety while they quit smoking - both are now addicted to the pills and the cigarettes.)

I was addicted for years - to the point that when I had my first heart attack at the age of 41 I was laying on the floor looking longingly at my cigarettes on the table, wishing I could reach them 'cause I knew they wouldn't let me have one in the ambulance once it got there. The only way I was able to quit was by having a few days in a hospital bed where they wouldn't let me smoke, followed by several weeks of convalescence at home where I didn't have to be around smokers - accompanied by the knowledge that if I gave in and had even one cigarette I'd be right back where I started.

Now, several years later, I consider myself cured in that I can be around other smokers without being tempted to partake myself. (I never did become one of those foaming-at-the-mouth anti-smoking former smokers, as you seem to be - probably because I understand just how difficult the addiction is to break.)

Oh, heck, I just noticed who I'm responding too. Toasty the Troll. Never mind Toasty - play your stupid time-wasting games, but I'm going to go ahead and post this 'cause it might do somebody some good, unlike your trolling crap. Why don't you get a life?!

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:37 am

OutOfBreath wrote:I will support your contention that cold turkey (no pills, patches, gum, etc.) is the most reliable long-term cessation plan - but it's not as simple as "just breathe instead."

I went through pills and gum with no success (I was married to a smoker) and when the day came, I tossed them in the trash can (my son dug them out and smoked them) and knew I wouldn't smoke another one at that very time. So far, so good.

Since then, I only had one desire for one, when I picked up my 2nd reed for my chanter, my pipemaker rolled up a Drum that smelled great (others had stunk to me)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:35 pm

Wanderer wrote:
toasty wrote:I could go on for hours about this and that, about Nicotine addiction ( a lie )
http://www.nida.nih.gov/researchreports ... #addictive
Recent research has shown in fine detail how nicotine acts on the brain to produce a number of behavioral effects. Of primary importance to its addictive nature are findings that nicotine activates the brain circuitry that regulates feelings of pleasure, the so-called reward pathways. A key brain chemical involved in mediating the desire to consume drugs is the neurotransmitter dopamine, and research has shown that nicotine increases the levels of dopamine in the reward circuits.
...
Scientific research is also beginning to show that nicotine may not be the only psychoactive ingredient in tobacco. Using advanced neuroimaging technology, scientists can see the dramatic effect of cigarette smoking on the brain and are finding a marked decrease in the levels of monoamineoxidase (MAO), an important enzyme that is responsible for breaking down dopamine. The change in MAO must be caused by some tobacco smoke ingredient other than nicotine, since we know that nicotine itself does not dramatically alter MAO levels. The decrease in two forms of MAO, A and B, then results in higher dopamine levels and may be another reason that smokers continue to smoke - to sustain the high dopamine levels that result in the desire for repeated drug use.

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/fact09.html
In February 2000, the Royal College of Physicians published a report on nicotine addiction which concluded that “Cigarettes are highly efficient nicotine delivery devices and are as addictive as drugs such as heroin or cocaine.”

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter. ... ifier=4753
What causes nicotine addiction?
Nicotine is an addictive drug. It causes changes in the brain that make people want to use it more and more. In addition, addictive drugs cause unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. The good feelings that result when an addictive drug is present — and the bad feelings when it's absent — make breaking any addiction very difficult. Nicotine addiction has historically been one of the hardest addictions to break.

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksAAddiction.html
this natural insecticide's chemical structure is so similar to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine that once inside the brain it fits a host of chemical locks permitting it direct and indirect control over the flow of more than 200 neurochemicals.
...
There was only one problem. All the physical changes engineered a new tailored neurochemical sense of normal built entirely upon the presence of nicotine. Now, any attempt to stop using it would come with a risk of intermittent temporary hurtful anxieties and powerful mood shifts. A true chemical addiction was born.

Or, how bout my common sense definition: If you desperately want to quit something, and can't, you're addicted. I'm not addicted to chocolate truffles. Even though I love them, I haven't had one in nearly a year. On the other hand, I was only able to quit cigs after several attempts.

Baiscaly all that stuff is irrelevant to the problem of habituated inhaling of smoke because not all who do it can absorb Nicotine!

So you could print a 1000 pages of that goop to prove stuff that will only 'cloud' the problem in yet more 'smoke' ; instead, why not be helpful by encouraging people to breathe air INSTEAD of smoke.

Lets face it smarty pants, air is better and we evolved breathing it. To a longtime smoker air is very addictive - and I dont need any goobledegook to show it.

Peace man, if you must suck something, suck air - its a better high and costs nothing.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:26 pm

toasty wrote:Baiscaly all that stuff is irrelevant to the problem of habituated inhaling of smoke because not all who do it can absorb Nicotine!

Say what? I have big doubts about that. I have personally never met such a person.

Point me to some real double blind research that indicates that there actually are people who don't absorb nicotine and I would also like the percentage of the sample who dont.

kga26 · Post by **kga26** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:21 pm

Hey.hey, Guys !!!! Toys back in the pram please.

I grew up in a post 50's family where Mum smoked, Dad Smoked, Mum smoked 40 a day whilst I was in the womb! I probably got addicted to nicotene whilst I was a fetus!!! We all know the foul and horrible consequences of smoking now. Funnily enough I did reknew my contract today, and the meeting was on the top floor! We walked up the stairs as the lift was broken. As a result of the fags I smoked worrying about the meeting I was completely out of breath by the time I got there!

Yes, I think we are all agreed at the depths of disgust this habit takes us to. But my goodness it is difficult to quit. By my calculation, I now quit more than I smoke, and Mum and Dad have been given up for more than 10 years, so there is hope for us all .........However, my son now smokes . This is a generational disease what we need is A.A. for smokers!

Just going to find some gum......................

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:08 pm

toasty wrote:Baiscaly all that stuff is irrelevant to the problem of habituated inhaling of smoke because not all who do it can absorb Nicotine!

I appreciate you pointing to all of those studies or authorities that support your position.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:54 pm

fancypiper wrote:
toasty wrote:Baiscaly all that stuff is irrelevant to the problem of habituated inhaling of smoke because not all who do it can absorb Nicotine!
Say what? I have big doubts about that. I have personally never met such a person.

Point me to some real double blind research that indicates that there actually are people who don't absorb nicotine and I would also like the percentage of the sample who dont.

Double blind study? We are human beings not bugs - Bugs have evolved to consume tobbacco plants. We evolved breathing air not smoke.

This is not about politickin and winning points - its about innocent people being willful and knowing poisoning by smokers WHO NOW KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

It is the same kind of irresponsibility as DWI or shooting guns in town!

In short it is murder!