Old Whistles??

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:03 am

Good morning

I'm new to C&F and new to playing the whistle.

While playing the whistle is new to me, I've had the "collecting" gene all my life. I already have 1/2 dozen inexpensive whistles and will be back looking for guidance on more whistles. It is fun to see how much better the whistles get, the more I practice. I am curious. Are there antique (75yr old) whistles out there and do they still play well. How do they compare to today's whistles?

Thanks for the fine site.

BillChin · Post by **BillChin** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:32 am

Good morning and welcome.

I bought an old whistle off eBay for a couple of bucks. I estimate it to be about 40 or 50 years old. The seller said it came from the estate of a music teacher that passed away. The whistle was tin and conical with a wood fipple, like a Clarke classic, but was not a Clarke. The old whistle played okay, being in tune, but was quiet and required lots of air, even quieter and more air than my Clarke classic. The old whistle was okay as a practice whistle, but not really suited for much else. I keep it in a bag on my bicycle and lost it when the entire bike was stolen.
+ Bill

vomitbunny · Post by **vomitbunny** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:46 am

That sounds like a cooperman.
When an old gen goes on ebay, it usually gets a fair amount of bids.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:01 am

The nicest whistle I ever played was over 100 years old. It was solid silver, not sure which alloy, very heavy, and in the key of F or G. It was perfectly in tune, with a pure but not recordery sound, very metallic. I offered my right arm for it, but the guy had one already, plus he was just restoring the whistle for a customer.

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:05 am

Your best bet for finding old whistles is probably eBay or another online auction. Once in a long while you'll hit one in an antique store, but this is vanishingly rare.

There're a lot of old junk whistles. Also a lot that are little better than toys. These are usually the garishly painted ones that look like Clarkes. These definitely fit into the 50-75 year old category, perhaps even older. Unfortunately, whether or not any of them were any good at first, drying and shrinking of the fipple block and dents. sprung seams and the like make them barely playable now, if that. I've occasionally found unattributable souvenir or toy whistles of both conical and cylindrical type. Most of them aren't very good.

The best old ones around are generally old Generation-type cylintrical all-brass whistles with lead fipple plugs. Some of them are quite nice, even when looking a bit dented and tarnished. Be prepared to pay a goodly amount for one of these. A lot of folks here want them.

A third type is sometimes described by eBay sellers as French military whistles, though I've no idea where this came from. No one who knows anything can authenticate this label. They're cylindrical, of much heavier tin than a Clarke. The ones I've seen are unpainted tin, rolled with a strongly soldered seam, and with any markings stamped in raised relief from the back side before rolling. The fipples are pot-metal, cast in one pice and soldered to the somewhat flattened top of the tube. The fingerholes do not vary in diameter. For all that, they're surprisingly playable, with good volume. These might also get pricey.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:13 am

I used t ocome across the min antique shops during the early 1980s, usually in drawers of furniture. if the price was right and the whsilte playable I'd sometiems buy one.

The nicest I had was a slightly cylindrical, cast and plated French made whistle form the second half of the 19th century. it played around c sharp, so it was a D fro mbefore the rise to A=440. it was just lovely.

Micho Russell nagged me and twisted my arm until I gave it to him and it was never sen again. Yes I regretted it soon after and ever since.

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:26 am

Peter

That sounds a lot like the so-called "French" whistles I mentioned. I got one off eBay before everyone else found out about it, and then had someone else on this board (I don't recall who) snipe a pair of them from me about a year ago. Even the tuning sounds right - my cheapo Korg tuner shows it to be a rather sharp D

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:37 am

I don't think so from your description. It was recorder like in it's styling but all cast with a coat of arms if I remember well and the usual bits from the period: 'twelve gold medals at such an such world exhibition' etc.

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:45 pm

You're right, mine looks much more workaday in its styling.

For the basic purpose of this thread, I didn't ealier mention the other type of old whistle sometimes seen in eBay auctions. There's occasionally a nineteenth century type of flageolet coionsisting of a wood body and the mouthpiece is long and thin, often of ivory, with a sponge chamber for absorbing saliva between the mouthpiece and the whistle body. They come in English and French versions and I'm not entirely clear on the difference. If you want to collect these, you might want to take out a loan, even though they don't always seem to be in the best of condition. FWIW, I always wondered if the configuration wouldn't make these exceedingly hard to blow.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:10 pm

In fact the prevailing assumption that whistles were mainly and English/irish business is wrong, there are loads of examples of late 19th century/early20th century whistles from Belgium, France and other places, both in metal, celluloid and early plastics. Belgium folkmusic collector Herman DeWitt collected a huge amount of folk instruments from Flanders and the french speaking part of Belgium. Among them are many fine examples of whistles, they can be found in his publications. Whisltes are also part of the collection of the musical instrument museam in Brussels.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:34 pm

I have an oldish whistle which I got in an antique shop for $11 a number of years ago. It's conical, painted tin: Red, (formerly)White and Blue and is labelled "All American Fife". The whistle is along the lines of a Shaw, and is not a half bad C whistle. I just did a Google search for one to show a pic and although I got several hits on eBay, they were all expired. Keep your eyes open though-- they show up from time to time.

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:42 pm

Paul

I thought the "All American Fife" was a Cooperman whistle and I also thought they were still made. I had one at one point but I gave it to a kid in the park because the little so-n-so was already better than me and I thought he should have his own whistle.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:59 am

Chuck_Clark wrote:Paul

I thought the "All American Fife" was a Cooperman whistle and I also thought they were still made. I had one at one point but I gave it to a kid in the park because the little so-n-so was already better than me and I thought he should have his own whistle.

Cooperman may use that name now, but the one I have is about 30's or 40s vintage. I asked about it somewhere and found that these were made by the Gretsch company. It's similar to the Cooperman's I've seen in that it's conical tin with a soldered seam, but it is much more refined. The Cooperman's I've tried have a VERY high, windy windway and are really more of a souvenir type item than a serious whistle.

John S · Post by **John S** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:59 am

A friend of mine has a Whistle of the cylindrical nickel-plated brass, lead block variety that his father made as an apprentice piece when studying engineering.
I have one of this type in Eb which is very nice indeed.

John S

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:18 am

I've seen some interesting antique whistles come on eBay from time to time.

For collectibility, the pre-plastic Gens are quite sought after, and there is a fair amount of interest in Hohner whistles, as Hohner no longer makes whistles, and they were an early manufacturer of low G (alto) whistles, besides the usual higher keys. They also are of interest because of their association with mid-20th Century Kwela. Both these come up on eBay, from time to time, and often C&Fers post to the Forum, when they spot them.

Another old one on eBay was an American one called Saxaflute. A painted Clarke-type.