OT: concertinas again - Anglo or English?

[csharpd]

In fact, some early Morse concertinas used wax to hold in the accordion reeds.

To the best of my knowledge, all Morse concertinas built to date have waxed-in reeds.

There's nothing inherently wrong with waxed-in reeds. The wax forms a very good airtight seal -- possibly better and longer lasting than a gasketed seal with screw-down reeds. It's a time-tested method that's used in very expensive (five-figure) accordions.

On the other hand, you do have to worry even more about leaving your instrument in a hot car ....

--C#/D

[Caj]

There's nothing inherently wrong with waxed-in reeds. The wax forms a very good airtight seal -- possibly better and longer lasting than a gasketed seal with screw-down reeds. It's a time-tested method that's used in very expensive (five-figure) accordions.

I figure that the use of wax is simply a byproduct of the sheer number of reeds used in accordions. The guts have to be made of lightweight materials, with a simple and logical design to avoid maintainence nightmares. Waxing allows you to secure a bunch of reeds, consistently, to a rack made of lightweight wood.

One of the ironic downsides is that accordion reeds are a bit bulky for a concertina; you can barely fit 15 of them flat on a 6" reedpan.

The other ironic downside is that many years of evolution have given accordion reeds a very consistent, general-purpose timbre that people don't want in a concertina. The difference in sound is subtle---subtle enough that if an accordion-reeded box sounds too bland, it's probably a problem with playing style rather than the stuff in the box---but old concertina reeds have a certain honky attack and fruity timbre that seem to have been bred out of the accordion.

Caj

[Zubivka]

The difference in sound is subtle---subtle enough that if an accordion-reeded box sounds too bland, it's probably a problem with playing style rather than the stuff in the box---but old concertina reeds have a certain honky attack and fruity timbre that seem to have been bred out of the accordion.

The complexity of accordion voicings (registers) and their intricate tuning to each other do make a complex sound, esp. with the French (a.k.a. musette) or American registers.

Now, if you hear a Bayan (Russian chromatic, all voices in-tune) right hand, playing the piccolo out-of-box register alone, do you think it is much different from a concertina?

Btw, here's an affordable one with an excellent reputation. For a true "converter" (left hand plays at will preset chords or bandoneon bass), it's hard to beat. The only drawback is I think it has only one register.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=16218

[Wombat]

The difference in sound is subtle---subtle enough that if an accordion-reeded box sounds too bland, it's probably a problem with playing style rather than the stuff in the box---but old concertina reeds have a certain honky attack and fruity timbre that seem to have been bred out of the accordion.

The complexity of accordion voicings (registers) and their intricate tuning to each other do make a complex sound, esp. with the French (a.k.a. musette) or American registers.

Now, if you hear a Bayan (Russian chromatic, all voices in-tune) right hand, playing the piccolo out-of-box register alone, do you think it is much different from a concertina?

I'm sure I would have heard a Bayan but can't remember when. Are you saying that a Bayan has a pair of reeds tuned in perfect unison? Some Irish accordeon players, probably those who don't double on concertina, favour perfectly dry tunings.

On the assumption that this is what you are saying, I'd say that it would not sound like a concertina, certainly not like an anglo. It's an odd thing about reeded instruments tuned in unison and stringed instrument with courses tunes in unison (eg., mandolin) that the different strings and reeds, although in tune, will still sound different and, played together, will still produce a slight chorus effect although nothing as dramatic as what a wet tuning will give you. If you play the same note on anglo concertina on the push on one button and the pull on another, the sound you get will be slightly different. No two reeds are exactly the same.

[Zubivka]

I'm sure I would have heard a Bayan but can't remember when. Are you saying that a Bayan has a pair of reeds tuned in perfect unison? Some Irish accordeon players, probably those who don't double on concertina, favour perfectly dry tunings.

Most Russian accordion music you may have heard had to be bayan.
However, it's picking up worldwide, and bayans consistently win international accordion contests. It's an extremely versatile instrument, and getting to be the most virtuosi-favoured squeezebox.

The Bayan (or B-system chromatic accordion) when taken in their simplest forms (not the multi-voice "concert" 20+ lbs. things) has usually two voices on right hand (flute + bassoon). The tuning is then the same as basic bandoneons: two voices, octaved, dry tuning.
If you get a third voice, it will be in dry unison with the standard "flute" voice, but one will be "in-box" (resonance chamber).
From what I know, Russian-made bayans don't use wax, and have hand-made reeds.
AFAIK, the biggest sound difference between western accordions and bayans is the latter are never tuned for "tremolo": the origin of the instrument has roots both in classical music and trad, and many Russian composers wrote for this instrument at the turn of 19th and 20th centuries.

The purely "trad" Russian squeezebox is the "garmonj" or "garmochka" (russifications of the German "Harmonika"), i.e. a concertina of sorts.

[Caj]

The complexity of accordion voicings (registers) and their intricate tuning to each other do make a complex sound, esp. with the French (a.k.a. musette) or American registers.

Yes, but I'm talking about the sound of a single reed. A concertina reed and an accordion reed have different sounds, and to me the accordion reed sounds more ... general-purpose. It sounds like its design, and its sound, has evolved for use in a general-purpose instrument.

Now, if you hear a Bayan (Russian chromatic, all voices in-tune) right hand, playing the piccolo out-of-box register alone, do you think it is much different from a concertina?

Yes. Just because only one voice is used doesn't mean it sounds like a concertina. Do you think that bayan sounds much different from an oboe?

Caj