Chiff and Fipple Forums

I recently purchased a few whistles in a package deal. In the package was a "B" (not Bb) whistle. Is it ever used? It seems like an unusual whistle to play Celtic music.

It's great for playing in B and anything related. Obviously. Like some pipers and fiddlers do.

This sort of thing

But its usefulness depends on the music you prefer and the company you keep.

Also helpful if you are playing in a group with a singer, since they tend to find keys that suit their voice, not stick to D, G, Am, etc.

PS: I'd stay away from pipers with flat sets if I were you. Sure, they seem cool, but they're a dangerous gateway into a world filled with bass concertinas, violas, and other instruments with a low reputation.

I'd stay away from pipers with flat sets if I were you.

Oy!

bigsciota wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:09 am Also helpful if you are playing in a group with a singer, since they tend to find keys that suit their voice, not stick to D, G, Am, etc.

Right, back years ago when I was doing "legit" gigs regularly I had whistles in every Chromatic key including B, Ab, Gb, and Db.

Because guitarists have capos, that most dangerous of things to the Folk Woodwind Player.

bigsciota wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:09 am
I'd stay away from pipers with flat sets if I were you.

Oh no that's the coolest thing about being at a Tionol, when everybody breaks out their B sets!

Yes this might happen in some side-room away from the main mixed-instrument session, or very late after the non-pipers have gone home.

There might be whistlers and fluters with B instruments and hardy tuned-down fiddlers who join in the fun.

And just maybe a smaller, even more esoteric session in C, or C#, might happen.

bigsciota wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:09 am Also helpful if you are playing in a group with a singer, since they tend to find keys that suit their voice, not stick to D, G, Am, etc.

PS: I'd stay away from pipers with flat sets if I were you. Sure, they seem cool, but they're a dangerous gateway into a world filled with bass concertinas, violas, and other instruments with a low reputation.

I'm kinda new to all of this. Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by flat sets?

Flat sets are uilleann pipes pitched lower than the normal D, e.g. C#, C, B etc. So basically in lower keys rather than simply 'flat', although they may be both (or indeed sharp!) because they're not always at A = 440.

jpassa01 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:20 am Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by flat sets?

It's interesting that many of the older sets of Uilleann pipes, say from the early 19th century, are much lower than D.

Often their pitches don't exactly correspond to any modern pitch (based on A=440) and they can range from around B-flat all the way up to C-sharp.

I think it's the Taylor Brothers who are often credited with popularising smaller Uilleann pipes in D in the late 19th century. These pipes were designed to be able to play along with other instruments such as accordion and piano, and there were bands with Uilleann pipes, piano, accordion, and even saxophone.

Taylor sets are often up to a quartertone higher than D which isn't surprising since 19th century flutes, Saxophones, clarinets etc were commonly made to the pitch of A=452, called Old Philharmonic Pitch. (In other words the Taylors weren't exceeding Concert Pitch, but meeting it.)

Back to flat sets, I don't know if there's strong historical basis for it but in the modern Uilleann piping world B-natural has become the more or less standard "flat set" pitch and many Uilleann pipers will own a B set in addition to their D set, or at least have a B chanter in their box that they plug into their D pipes for B sessions.

Not as common as B, but many pipers own a C set or at least a C chanter. And chanters and full sets are seen in C-sharp and B-flat.

Then there are sharp sets! Joe McKenna was making chanters and sets in E-flat and even E-natural but I don't think those pitches really caught on.

Oh one thing about "flat sets" they're not just D pipes made bigger; flat chanters have a smaller-diameter bore in relation to their length than ordinary D chanters do, which gives flat pipes their distinctive darker tone.

To confuse things more, there are "narrow bore D chanters" which might be considered "flat" chanters though they're pitched at D.