Chiff and Fipple Forums

Sorry about that - the edit function's creating new posts instead of just editing, and I can't find a delete.

David Cooper wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:28 pm Sorry about that - the edit function's creating new posts instead of just editing, and I can't find a delete.

Once someone has posted after you, or your post times out after 72 hours, the delete function stops. In which case, only a mod can do that for you.

David Cooper wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:25 pm

Cyberknight wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:06 pmI'm not sure this is what you're saying, but what if each key actually lifted an entire section of tube, so that the tube became shorter? So the tube is split into a ton of pieces, and every time you lift a key, a chunk of tube is removed from the whole?

Yes, that's the idea, though they can't stay open without a whole lot needing to close at once when going from a high to a low note. Of course, it might be sufficient for each key to open the hole for its note plus the hole below it to wipe out most of the influence of the rest of the tube beyond, and that might be the route to minimising the amount of force needed to press each key.

That was actually an idea I had at one point! Instead of keys opening / closing holes, they would be connected to a chunk of tube and effectively shorten the length of the body when raised. Although I didn't test it, I suspected that it would be hard to make a suitably airtight seal when all these disconnected chunks were closed, while also allowing them to move up and down. And, as you pointed out, there's an agility factor - fast notes seem like they would be hard to do with how much "stuff" is physically moving around.

Do you think this idea is worth pursuing further though?

Cyberknight wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:47 am Finally, your point about clarinets raises an interesting problem, which is that a keyboard layout isn't just going to make embouchure difficulties vanish.

I'm imagining that you would connect the air tube to the headpiece (whether that be a sideblown hole, a fipple, or reed like Clarinet) in a way that produces a clean note. Approximating an optimal embouchure. This would be an advantage because the hardware would take care of embouchure difficulties.

With Clarinet, some experimentation would be needed to see if just one setting would works for high / low notes. But with sideblown / fipple heads I think it's a pretty safe bet that just one "setting" could work up and down the register. (By "setting" I mean the size, shape, and angle of the tube's end as it meets the hole / fipple).

Then again, maybe that's a naive assumption on my part. Leaving aside the Clarinet question for the time being, do you change mouth shapes very much when playing flute / whistle?

palewine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:57 am

Cyberknight wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:47 am Finally, your point about clarinets raises an interesting problem, which is that a keyboard layout isn't just going to make embouchure difficulties vanish.

I'm imagining that you would connect the air tube to the headpiece (whether that be a sideblown hole, a fipple, or reed like Clarinet) in a way that produces a clean note. Approximating an optimal embouchure. This would be an advantage because the hardware would take care of embouchure difficulties.

With Clarinet, some experimentation would be needed to see if just one setting would works for high / low notes. But with sideblown / fipple heads I think it's a pretty safe bet that just one "setting" could work up and down the register. (By "setting" I mean the size, shape, and angle of the tube's end as it meets the hole / fipple).

Then again, maybe that's a naive assumption on my part. Leaving aside the Clarinet question for the time being, do you change mouth shapes very much when playing flute / whistle?

Someone who plays reed instruments should chime in here, but I don't think that would work for clarinet. I'm pretty sure the clarinet only works if there's constant pressure change on the reed, accomplished by the lips. Reeds in free-blown instruments are configured differently, I think, so they don't need the change of pressure (but this also makes them sound different). Again, could be mistaken. All I know is that there are hundreds of free blown reed instruments out there, including many with cane reeds and cylindrical bores, and I've never heard any of them that sound much like a clarinet.

But you're 100% correct that this would be far less of an issue on a whistle, because there's so little you have to do embouchure-wise on a whistle. Having a tube you blow into that's separated from the fipple by a great distance would mean you have no control over embouchure at all. But whistle requires so little embouchure control in the first place that this might not really matter that much. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of other low whistle players about this. In my experience, switching octaves and getting the whistle in tune is about 90% breath control and 10% embouchure (controlled by your tongue, how much your throat is constricted, your angle of blowing, etc.). But others may disagree and think that embouchure is less (or perhaps more) important than that.

palewine wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:39 amDo you think this idea is worth pursuing further though?

I think the resulting instrument would be disappointing no matter how it's built mechanically - lots of clunking and thumping to generate bland notes. A synthesiser is the way to go with this one.