Melodic Cuts

[Matthewlawson3]

What's a melodic cut? Refresh my memory please hahaha.

[fatmac]

Something that fits into the tune.......

[Matthewlawson3]

Something that fits into the tune.......

Yes, but is this another name for a single note cut or one when you cut between two notes?

[benhall.1]

I must admit, I've never heard the phrase. Where have you come across it?

[Mr.Gumby]

I was thinking the same, knowing the source could perhaps give a hint at the thinking behind it.

Other than that I imagine it refers to cuts that are not purely emphasising/rhythmic or separating in function. A lot depends on the placement of cuts, relative to the melody note: a delayed cut can have a pronounced melodic impact (although I would for myself think of it more, correctly or incorrectly, as a gracenote rather than a cut. Purely because it brings a sense of grace to the note).

[Maddie]

Surprisingly little shows up on Google for that phrase. OAIM mentions it in their tin whistle foundations course, Lesson 4, which says The Toormore Slide, Melodic Cuts. Scroll 3/4 of the way down this page: https://www.oaim.ie/tin-whistle/tin-whi ... undations/ . We'd need someone with an OAIM membership to explain what they mean.

[pancelticpiper]

To me "melodic cut" sounds like an oxymoron.

You have melody notes, and you have cuts and pats.

For sure in ITM it's up for debate whether the cuts, pats, and rolls are "ornaments" per se or devices inseparable from the style of presenting the melody.

There are devices that for me straddle that line, for example in an air going from (for example) A to G by means of inserting two extra quick notes thus:

ABAG

xxo ooo (A melody note)
xoo ooo
xxo ooo
xxx ooo (G melody note)

The short B and A aren't cuts, aren't pats, but do have an ornamental effect.

[Matthewlawson3]

To me "melodic cut" sounds like an oxymoron.

You have melody notes, and you have cuts and pats.

For sure in ITM it's up for debate whether the cuts, pats, and rolls are "ornaments" per se or devices inseparable from the style of presenting the melody.

There are devices that for me straddle that line, for example in an air going from (for example) A to G by means of inserting two extra quick notes thus:

ABAG

xxo ooo (A melody note)
xoo ooo
xxo ooo
xxx ooo (G melody note)

The short B and A aren't cuts, aren't pats, but do have an ornamental effect.

Guys I have the OAIM and I am the one that asked the question. I'm glad someone pointed out lesson 4. I went back and looked and now understand her terminology again haha. A melodic cut according to her is a cut between two notes of the same tonal value. A melodic cut is not as percussive as a normal cut. The sound of the note that is being used to cut the intended note can be heard. This is what they say at least.

[ytliek]

Please see the thread about using quotes for particular points of issue.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=106022

[pancelticpiper]

A melodic cut according to her is a cut between two notes of the same tonal value. A melodic cut is not as percussive as a normal cut. The sound of the note that is being used to cut the intended note can be heard.

An interesting distinction that I've not heard verbalized before. Sure cuts might vary in length and percussiveness due to context, though I myself aren't aware that I do cuts differently when between two notes of the same pitch (which by the way are how cuts are in long rolls).

For me, short rolls which occur on a beat are sharply attacked with a percussive cut, say in a reel

'G,GBG (short roll on G followed by the melody notes BG)

and (also in a reel) this case has two cuts occurring between G, but they have a different attack

'G,G'GE (short roll on G followed by the melody notes GE)

Both of these cuts will probably be more precussive than the one part of a G roll thus

G'G,GE (long roll on G followed by the melody note E)

[RoberTunes]

Now that I've learned this new term, I'm going to practice some, along with some harmonic cuts, spontaneous cuts, expressive cuts, lyrical cuts, transition cuts, mood cuts, rule breaker cuts, improv cuts and sound effects cuts.

[pancelticpiper]

Now that I've learned this new term, I'm going to practice some, along with some harmonic cuts...

That's no joke!

Many years ago I attended a flute workshop with a "big name" fluteplayer who explained to us that he used a cut a 3rd above the note being cut, one reason being that it made harmonic sense, being in the same chord, thus:

xxx xxx
xxx xox
xxx xxx

xxx xxo
xxx oxo
xxx xxo

xxx xoo
xxo xoo
xxx xoo

xxx ooo
xox ooo
xxx ooo

xxo ooo
oxo ooo
xxo ooo

[Peter Duggan]

one reason being that it made harmonic sense, being in the same chord

A faulty assumption when even that wouldn't always be true!

[RoberTunes]

one reason being that it made harmonic sense, being in the same chord

A faulty assumption when even that wouldn't always be true!

The player chooses what cut, pat or trill interval works best, I guess. It could be an interval of a 5th or more, down to a semitone, depending on what works best for the music at that moment, and what the instrument and your fingers can offer. I've been watching many videos of whistlers who throw in just about every type of ornament and everything seems smoothly integrated with the general music structure; the melody line, the key, the rhythm, the harmonic possibilities and sometimes with a sense of expressing where the music came from or a sense of where it's going, while the lead line carries the main thrust of the music. Just seems more likely that at high speed, the cuts and taps remain as either one or two note intervals, on a whistle. On a recorder, flute, sax or clarinet you have more choice on their chromatic ladders. With practice, some semitone cuts/taps done quickly with a half-closed hole on a whistle, would be available, but from what I've seen, half-holing done fast is more for vibrato effects. Meanwhile, back at the pub..........