List of Ornamentations?

[*Cedar The Whistler*]

I don't know all of them but...
I was wondering if you guys could help me put together a list of ornamentations or a video of you doing them?

Here are some I know:

Cuts
Taps
Rolls
Slides
Crans
Tonguing

Thats all I know. If you know anymore, please post.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

[awildman]

Tonguing combined with the first 5 on your list.

[pancelticpiper]

First, a "slide" is a type of dance, so perhaps some other term could be used? In "legit" wind-playing it's called a "gliss" (glissando). You can bend notes up, or down. I've heard people call them "slides" and "glides" and "scoops" so there doesn't seem to be a standard term.

And all the varieties of finger vibrato/tremolo/flattement.

Yes "cuts" and "pats" (upper gracenotes and lower gracenotes). Cuts are usually single but there are double-cuts too.

Cuts and pats generate various rolls: short rolls, long rolls, double-cut long rolls to name three.

For cranning, there's an ornament many old-school fluteplayers and whistleplayers would use in the place where a piper would play a true cran. I've never heard a name for it, so I call it "the old fluteplayer's semi-cran". It uses the same fingers as a cran but not in the same way, yet up to speed it sounds very much like a cran.

xxo xxx (cut on Bottom D)
xxx xxx (initial Bottom D note)
xxx xoo
xxx xxo
xxx xxx (final Bottom D note)

basically an F# E D triplet, with the F# very short. You'd have to hear it for it to make sense, and sound like a cran.

Actual piper's crans come in many forms, but they're basically two, three, or four cuts on Bottom D using some combination of the upper-hand ring finger, the lower-hand index finger, and the lower-hand middle finger. You can hear a half-dozen pipers do them a half-dozen different ways, yet when these guys play together it will all match more or less.

Lastly the short trills, the praltriller or upper mordent, most commonly done on F# and E using the lower-hand index finger on the pipes.

In the main, cuts, pats, and the various things created by combining them aren't "ornaments" but articulations. Tonguing, cutting, and patting are three different ways of doing the same thing. As mentioned above cuts are often tongued to give them more clarity (just the attack is tongued, you don't chop of the back end of the cut).

[benhall.1]

First, a "slide" is a type of dance, so perhaps some other term could be used?

I believe the correct term for the ornament is a "shlide".

[*Cedar The Whistler*]

Thanks! You are very helpful!! I wish that I could hear what you are talking about though.

[Roots School]

A slide is say XXX XXX (bottom D) and slowly taking off the bottom RH finger so that the note doesn't just change from D to E it slides upwards with no noticeable step.
There are many forms of Cran (crann) for bottom D, since it's difficult to decorate this (impossible really - though you can breathe a vibrato) with the other types of decoration, and usually they involve raising and lowering the fingers of the Left hand.
There's vibrato of course - love that on slow tunes/aires - slow pats using lower fingers - you can pick your own really.
There's also volume vibrato as opposed to pitch change vibrato, where you waver the note volume with breathe control - great for bottom D.
There are NO rules in folk playing, and whatever you develop, will end up being your own style, and that's what you are after.
Pats & cuts should be so fast that you can't hear the extra note you are putting in. There are more of a hiccup during the note played.
You can hear upper and lower mordents though, and these too are decoration.
No-one has mentioned trills - they sound like the name. Lots of fast lower mordents rather than pats I think.
On Uillean pipes I 'pop' second register frequently, and you can use a similar style on whistle too.
An excellent teacher at our 'Roots School' kills the last note of each phrase. It literally sounds as though it has died off, and he does it by reducing air flow.

The more you play - the more you find.

For basics we stick with teaching CEPSS at our 'Roots School'. Cuts, Emphasis (Should have mentioned that one too LOL that's probably THE most important) Pats, Slides and Slurs.
Slurs on a whistle are the same as on a fiddle. On a fiddle its more than one note for a bow stroke. On a whistle its more than one note per breathe. Tongueing every note (staccato) makes it sound too choppy in my opinion, and most definitely, aires and waltzes need slurring. But then some fine Irish players like Pakky Burn chopped every note.
You just have to find your own style.

For slow aires, we have a simple maxim - slide to the note, cut it then vibrato. Easy rule of thumb to follow that works for every long or 'held' note.

John T

[Mr.Gumby]

It literally sounds as though it has died off,

The ultimate in bad taste. Yuk.

[ytliek]

An excellent teacher at our 'Roots School' kills the last note of each phrase. It literally sounds as though it has died off, and he does it by reducing air flow.

Curious if its just improper breathing and running out of air.

[Peter Duggan]

No-one has mentioned trills - they sound like the name. Lots of fast lower mordents rather than pats I think.

No, trills take the the main (melody) note and the note *above*. But guessing no-one mentioned them because they're not a typically 'trad' ornament...

On a whistle its more than one note per breathe.

More than one note without interrupting the airflow, which is *not* the same thing!

[pancelticpiper]

volume vibrato as opposed to pitch change vibrato, where you waver the note volume with breathe control

Yes you can do "vibrato" with the fingers in two different manners, or impart a pulse to the air-stream with the abdominal muscles or with the throat. Technically finger vibrato is flattement, because the "shading" is flattening the pitch. Vibrato imparted to the air-stream gives a fluctuation in pitch and volume.

Here's a little video I did demonstrating the four methods I mentioned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK9RmMnDuPA

There are NO rules in folk playing

Every musical idiom has stylistic parameters which define the idiom. These are taken for granted, more or less, by the practitioners of the idiom but they exist nevertheless. In this way Irish Traditional music is the same as Jazz, the same as Baroque music, the same as Bluegrass, and so forth. In any sort of music there are a sizable number of "right" ways of doing anything (ways which sound genre-appropriate to traditional players) and an infinite number of "wrong" ways (ways that sound genre-inappropriate to traditional players).

The more you play - the more you find.

So true!

[Mr.Gumby]

Perhaps I should elaborate a bit on the 'ultimate in bad taste' comment above. The 'dying note' comes from certain styles of 'moody' low whistle playing and possibly it is appropriate in that type of music, I don't know. I'd consider it the tear in the country singer's voice, an easy, cheap effect but YMMV. But I do strongly believe it has no place in traditional music and I can't think of a player whose aesthetic choices I admire who would use it (I do realise that's a bit of a circular statement as I would not admire the aesthetic choices of someone who does use the device. I am sure you get my drift though).

The 'there are no rules' statement betrays perhaps lack of insight and familiarity with the traditional music communities whose members usually have a strong developed sense of what is OK, aesthetically and stylistically, and what is definitely not.

This one keeps niggling me as well, on a number of levels:

For slow aires, we have a simple maxim - slide to the note, cut it then vibrato. Easy rule of thumb to follow that works for every long or 'held' note.

[bensdad]

Excuse my ignorance, but who or what is Roots School?

[Peter Duggan]

Apparently some kind of night classes where you can get some kind of whistle lessons...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100997

Which links to a site with an interesting teaching policy...

'We'll try to ensure that those you teach are below your level of ability'

And a video.

[Slight edit - Mod]

[benhall.1]

Apparently some kind of night classes where you can get some kind of whistle lessons...

They do other instruments too:

fiddle
guitar

[Nanohedron]

For slow aires, we have a simple maxim - slide to the note, cut it then vibrato. Easy rule of thumb to follow that works for every long or 'held' note.

I dunno - sounds to me like you're going to have to get rid of the "no rules" talk.