Whistle embouchure.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Thu May 22, 2008 10:00 am

Other whistles can be more forgiving, but I would agree that most low whistles benefit from the use of a good embrochure

Just to add some context: low whistles don't really figure in my world at all so that will colour my comments a bit.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu May 22, 2008 10:13 am

medit8b1 wrote: Besides, I thought that's what this forum was for, to obsess over and over analyze whistles?

But of course, that is a given, at the top of the list.

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Thu May 22, 2008 11:55 am

It has been stated that "Embouchure" is also a physical feature of the whistle itself. The angle of the labium ramp, the depth and size etc. all play a role in the "Voice". Tabor Pipes use a long shallow labium for fast register changes and chiff, while Recorder designs us a short, deep voicing to stabilize pitch and give a more "Reedy" tone color. The permutations on voicing/embouchure design are legion! If you add player technique, well, you get the picture...

This topic needs to be more precise in nature to give proper answers.

medit8b1 · Post by **medit8b1** » Thu May 22, 2008 12:59 pm

So, we've got one person saying we're being over analytical, and another saying we're not being analytical enough?

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:50 pm

medit8b1 wrote:So, we've got one person saying we're being over analytical, and another saying we're not being analytical enough?

Yes! it only took about a page and one half. Course that is subject to opinion, and might be misconstrued as hijacking a thread.
Is it not great?

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:08 pm

I prefer the term "Corp-Rat Takeover" to "Hijacking"

Stuporman · Post by **Stuporman** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:25 pm

The embouchure is built in to a tin whistle. It's called a fipple. Blowing into a coaches' whistle with different contortions of the mouth can be analyzed for years, but why? It's a toy that can make beautiful sounds. If you like to analyze embouchures, get a flute.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:32 pm

Stuporman wrote:The embouchure is built in to a tin whistle. It's called a fipple. Blowing into a coaches' whistle with different contortions of the mouth can be analyzed for years, but why? It's a toy that can make beautiful sounds. If you like to analyze embouchures, get a flute.

A few points here.

o It sounds like you're confusing the meaning of embouchure as the physical position of the lips and mouth with the meaning as the instrument's mouthpiece or opening. The OP's questions clearly refers to the former.

o No one is talking about contortions or spending years. That's a straw man argument, and doesn't fly.

o Dismissing a legitimate whistle question with "toy" and "get a flute" is not helpful. Even those here who are recommending against overanalysis are not suggesting that embouchure has no effect or is an illegitimate issue.

Cheers.

rh · Post by rh » Thu May 22, 2008 6:58 pm

For me, embouchure control is really important in playing Susatos (the small through the large bores), especially trying to balance the volume between octaves. It seems less important in playing Gen-type whistles (at least the higher ones, the Howard Low D also needs some embouchure control). I also agree with MTGuru's previous post on the Copelands -- the B can be excruciating without it. But after a while it comes without thinking too much about it, at least on most whistles i've played.

My opinion, FWIW.

walrii · Post by **walrii** » Fri May 23, 2008 7:54 am

I found out about whistle embrochure from several books for The Fipple Flute That Shall Not Be Named. Embrochure is discussed at a more basic level in that community that from what I've seen in the whistle community.

kennychaffin · Post by **kennychaffin** » Fri May 23, 2008 8:17 am

medit8b1 wrote:.....

I think that too much overanalyzing can be detrimental as well, however a balance is required as some level of technique is required to play at all, let alone well. Besides, I thought that's what this forum was for, to obsess over and over analyze whistles?

Yeah and if not here, then where?

Nice video.

KAC

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Fri May 23, 2008 9:55 am

What is "embrochure" and what has it to do with this thread? It sounds like it should be an obscure craft activity somwhere between embroidery and pulling wine corks.

More to the point, how can anyone who has attentively read any manual (let alone this and other threads on the topic) using the term persistently mis-spell it?

More on-topic, I'm with Peter on this one - Maybe I choose whistles that respond best to a relatively free flow of air (I don't like very narrow windways/lots of backpressure), but aside from having it secure in my lips and at a comfortable angle that does not occlude the airway at all, I don't think about "embouchure" in relation to whistles or other fipple flutes. Variations in tone colour and intonation are, for me, to do with control of breath pressure and support of the whole air-column (the latter is important and can be ameliorated), but the mechanics of the windway and labium are fixed. Partially blocking the entrance to the airway just muffles tone, IMO, undesirably. I say all this as a flute player who, on that instrument, is constantly engaged with embouchure issues.

Edited for a mysterious typo mistake that wiped out parts of two sentences in the last paragraph - and I can't remember exactly what I was trying to say. Sorry!

Pyroh · Post by **Pyroh** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:06 am

jemtheflute wrote: More on-topic, I'm with Peter on this one - Maybe I choose whistles that respond best to a relatively free flow of air (I don't like very narrow windways/lots of backpressure), but aside from having it secure in my lips and at a comfortable angle that does not occlude the airway at all, I don't think about "embouchure" in relation to whistles or other fipple flutes. Variations in tone colour and intonation are, for me , consciously latter is important and can be ameliorated), but the mechanics of the windway and labium are fixed. Partially blocking the entrance to the airway just muffles tone, IMO, undesirably. I say all this as a flute player who, on that instrument, is constantly engaged with embouchure issues.

Hm, it may have something to do with backpressure, but at least on my Overtons, "embouchure" is rather important in overall tonal quality. But it´s probably mostly matter of backpressure-whistles, as D whistle I have, with vastly larger backpressure, is more influenced.

The biggest difference I percieve is when you - ugh, this would be difficult to express even in Czech...basically you take your lips and put them "inside" your mouth, over your teeth, so from outside, it looks like you have no teeth - then the sound is much more reedy (and pleasant to my eyes) and less muffled/chiffy.

I may try to record a soundclip if you like...

highwood · Post by **highwood** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:46 am

I don't think about "embouchure" in relation to whistles or other fipple flutes. ... but the mechanics of the windway and labium are fixed.

I have a "Fipple Flute That Shall Not Be Named" and at least one whistle that respond to an embouchure change. It is useful one too, when blowing harder/faster fipple flutes tend to go sharp with these two particular instruments I am able to change my embouchure and get the notes back down in pitch some.

Now which whistle was it, and can I figure why it responded and others didn't.

medit8b1 · Post by **medit8b1** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:24 pm