Could A Tunable E-flat Play As A D?

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 3:40 pm

I've got a hunch this falls into the stupid question bin, but I don't really know the answer to this. I do know if you shorthen the length of the head/body joint, you sharp the tone; lengthen it and you flat the tone. Now, since E-flat is D-sharp, and only a half-tone away from D, is it possible for a tunable E-flat whistle to do double duty?

If this is possible, in theory, is it possible in practice with an E-flat Sindt?

Any thoughts are appreciated!
FE

Post by **rich** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 3:44 pm

You could get a tunable Eb to play the note D, with the mouthpiece nearly falling off, perhaps -- but the rest of the notes would be out of tune, since the holes will be too close together.

NicoMoreno · Post by **NicoMoreno** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 6:23 pm

I practise all the time with other keys, but this is because I generally only read music in D and just decide which key I want it to be in. When I play with other people (ie at church) I choose the key based on the music and dont bother to use sheet music

But I dont think this is really related to your questions!!

Nico

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 10:14 pm

it's not a stupid question... but it does bring up a topic that many musicians really need to understand when they play with other musicians.

Rich is absolutely correct (it's hard to argue with physical laws). If you were able to play a low d on an Eb whistle, the rest of the notes would be extremely flat - in fact the D major scale wouldn't even sound like a major scale, it would be microtonal.

When you tune a specific note to another instrument, you're tuning THAT note. It's up to the individual musician to know how the rest of the notes act in relationship to that note.

I've been a BIG fan of Dixon's SopD whistle for a couple of weeks now. And I can tell you that on MY whistle, the way that I play, if low D is in tune, the notes up to A will be relatively in tune, B is a little flat, Cnat is a little flat and C# is a little sharp. Most of which is less than 1/16th a tone, but it's good to know when playing. The second octave is similar, but A is also a little flat. The best way to test this is with an electronic tuner and someone else looking at the output. (When the player does, he instinctively tries to compensate).

This is part of taking your whistle out on a date... Learn what it does well and what it needs help with...

Does anyone else sleep with their whistles???

-Frank

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:38 am

Yeah Frank. Actually I do sleep with my whistles. All of them lie on my bed beside me in a roll.

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Wed Jul 04, 2001 10:20 am

I really appreciate the thoughts on the subject. I don't own an E-flat to test out the theory, so I thought I'd ask. Whistles are such marvels of design, for something so deceptively simple.

I did cotton to the fact holes have different spacing based on the key - I put a little F alongside my low D and there's the most dramatic evidence anyone could ask for. Then again, I put my D TWZ alongside my D Walton's Little Black D, and those holes have markedly different spacing too (also different bore diameters and even the finger-holes of the TWZ are bigger!), yet they both play in D!

I don't have a single instrument (whistle or recorder) that plays perfectly in tune along the breadth of it's range - I have compared them all against my tuner. Someone once told me there's always going to be a note off-ish here and there. The compensations are in the performer, who learns a slightly different fingering for a note, or blows just a bit over or under, or digs within for better diaphragm support.

All this makes for the lovely, rakish quality of a whistle's sound. It also aids the player in developing that special bond with the instrument that Dr Giggles goes on about so delightfully.

I just figured, since D and E-flat were so darn close pitch-wise, with all the other factors that go into the mix, it might just be possible.

Should have known!!

cheers
FE

Mark_J · Post by **Mark_J** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 2:37 pm

I did a test with my O'Riordan low E-flat.
The O'Riordan is a 3 piece instrument; the bottom hole is a different piece from the other 5 holes. Using some liberty by extending the bottom piece, I was able to get the whole first register in tune plus/minus a few hz. The problem with tuning came into play with F of the second register which was painfully out of tune. That makes the instrument almost unusable (the most narrow tunes I know have 9 notes). I did not expect the animal to respond as well as it did. I do not think that there were any advantages of reach improvement with this method. I highly reccommend against trying this method to get to play a Low D whistle. It will annoy your friends and possibly hurt your whistle.

peace.

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 10:13 pm

That gave me an idea. Why can't somebody make a whistle that has a seperate section for each hole? That way you can play in 3 different keys by simply adjusting each section. Say you have a C whistle. Simply reposition the holes to the "D mark", and you now have a D whistle. Reposition the sections to the "Bb mark", and now you have a Bb whistle. Who knows, maybe you could play in more than 3 keys. (This whistle can obviously play in c# & B nat.) Just be sure to cut me in on some of the royalties, but don't blame me when the last couple of sections fall off during a solo. -JP

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: John Palmer on 2001-07-10 00:15 ]</font>

Post by **rich** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 10:47 pm

<i>Obviously</i>, we just need smaller portable holes.
<ul>-Rich</ul>

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 8:25 am

On 2001-07-10 00:13, John Palmer wrote:
That gave me an idea. Why can't somebody make a whistle that has a seperate section for each hole?

Cute Idea... Unfortunately, hole length is only one variable in the equation. You've also got bore width, hole diameter, and probably many others that I can't think of off the top of my head. Also, putting the holes in the right place is very critical - off one mm in either direction and you're instrument's gonna be out of tune.

Probably the best plan for modularity is already out there, one head/multiple bodies. Besides, it's the headjoint that makes 75-90% of the tonal qualities of the instrument, the rest of it is just a tube with holes.