Are we a bunch of cheap folk?

[Sober Sam]

Lately I have been talking to a couple of whistle and Flute makers. There's two things that they all say:
I have so many orders that I can hardly keep up with them.
I make so little money out of this that it's difficult to make a living of it and I might eventually have to get a dayjob.

This leads me to one conclusion. Well crafted handmade whistles and flutes are obviously being sold beneath their value. Someone who is selling so many instruments, that he can't keep up with orders should be making lots of money, shouldn't he? But obviously the opposite is the case.
Now first of all, I think, people should get the price that their work is worth for their products.
Second, I don't want my favorite instrument makers to quit the business because they can't afford to keep on making instruments.

So here's my question: How much more would you be willing to pay for a good instrument in order to make the business worthwile for the maker?

[ElPollo]

Well, i think the makers should follow the laws of supply and demand.

If demand gets high and you (the maker) has to put people on a long waiting list, up the price accordingly. When demand gets low you might lower the price if you feel like it.

I mean, for the handmade ones we usually get excellent service INCLUDED in the low price. (More work for the maker, no pay)

edit: Voted more than 50%... mainly because you lacked an option called "the makers/market decides"

[Ronnie]

Hi guys!
I don't agree with Elpollo, every body who loves whistles/flutes is prepared to pay a fair price to the maker. If a maker finds it hard to get by with whistle making he has to rise his prices. Rising prices when work piles up and waiting time gets up is professional suiced because after the rush the man has to ask the same prices. I think that every maker knows what to ask in accordance with the work he does on the instrument. I am affraid that no maker of instruments will get rich with his craft and probably that isn't his goal. Let them ask fair prices and waiting lists will always exist. Take care and best wishes,
Ron

[dryer]

Not sure I understand your poll....percent of what? However, I get your point. Having been in the guitar/mandolin game for over 40 years, a private luthier (pretty much goes for any craftsman), will always be at the bottom of the food chain. A sad fact when it comes to the arts in general. It's almost impossible to make a good living, cranking out one instrument at a time, no matter the price. When making and selling custom instruments, you are usually dealing with a very picky crowd, and customer service will eat you alive, after the sale. The shops that do well will be craftsman who have duplicated themselves and formed a company, with better consistency and quality control.
I was a custom bench jeweler for a few years and learned all about what people are willing to pay for craftsmanship, plus expectations after the sale....they expect you to eat the cost of repair, even if they are at fault. Buyers expect perfection on a one of a kind item, but ideals differ of what perfection is.
What would I pay?......100% of the asking price of the craftsman IF the value of the piece suits me. If the craftsman becomes well known, a secondary market will tend to dictate the price.

[violinmyster]

You also have to take in consideration that the economy and job market is not great. Therefore, if people are tight with money they will spend it on gas, food, oil and not the extras like whistles! I am all for supporting whistle makers but if the prices get too high then people will not be able to afford them.

[MusicalADD]

I'm not sure how to interpret the "percentage" wording.

If you're saying that it's a shame that some whistle makers are working hard without much financial success to show for their work, well I wasn't aware of that, but that does sound like a shame.

But I don't think it means that we players are cheap. It's up to the maker to figure out what they need to charge to make a profit.

[fearfaoin]

It's just math, folks.
If a flute now costs $2000, would you pay 10% more ($2200) for that same
flute? 20% ($2400)? Would you pay 50% more ($3000)? At what point
would you refuse to buy that flute?

[MusicalADD]

It's just math, folks.
If a flute now costs $2000, would you pay 10% more ($2200) for that same
flute? 20% ($2400)? Would you pay 50% more ($3000)? At what point
would you refuse to buy that flute?

Well, no. I'd say you're overlooking relevant variables. There are many different whistles from many manufacturers, at many price points. As a result, the question is ambiguous.

I'd be willing to pay 50% over list for the bargain known as a Gen Bb. I would choose a lower percentage for a Burke, in spite of the fact that I like the Burke better than the Gen.

[Aanvil]

I'm more than 50% percent cheap.

Plied with alcohol I might get close to 100% but you'll have to buy me dinner and perhaps flowers.

I'm also a large percentage saucy.

[Sober Sam]

I'd be willing to pay 50% over list for the bargain known as a Gen Bb. I would choose a lower percentage for a Burke, in spite of the fact that I like the Burke better than the Gen.

It's about handmade high end whistles. So it's about the likes of Burke, Overton, Abell etc (those are just the fist names that pop into my mind, not necessarily the ones I've been talking to)

But yes, the general question is: Would you e willing to pay 360, 390 or even 450 Euros for a whistle, that is now priced 300 if this would help your favorite whistle maker to stay in business.

And the whole percentage thing is about the percentage you'd be willing to pay more in addition to the actual price.

When I created the poll, the option "I think they are already too expencive" got lost somehow.

[dryer]

And the whole percentage thing is about the percentage you'd be willing to pay more in addition to the actual price.

Might want the re-word your poll. "Actual" price would be the price finally paid. "List" price would be the retail price quoted by the maker. So, if a person were willing to pay 50% higher than list, for whatever reason, then that would become the 'actual' price.
I took your question more to mean "what am I willing to pay for a custom, one of a kind, instrument." vs. a cheaper mass produced instrument from a factory. I personally support cottage industry...being one myself....and am willing to pay for the time and trouble to get something special.
Either way, great post!

[Guinness]

Sorry, but this is another poorly thought out poll.

While there are several considerations, as a minimum, one has to know exactly what they're considering for purchase, its current market value, market conditions (scarcity), before deciding on paying a premium. Bidding on a hypothetical seems like a lot of hot air.

Since the whistle market is free, not captive, without price regulation or gross barriers to trade, I would say the current pricing for all brand new whistle makes and models is generally "fair". Makers who price hike or low ball can easily price themselves out of the market, which is why very few have taken that approach.

For those makers who have long waiting lists, I suggest queue-hopping pricing. Make the desperados pay. Double even. Me? I wait for the desperados to get desperate again so that they sell 'em to me below market value. Where's the poll option for that?

[Jason Paul]

Well, how many hours does it take to make a hand-made whistle? How much does the maker need to earn in order to make a living? Keep in mind things like overhead, materials, and of course, taxes.

If you break it down to an hourly wage, it doesn't look very profitable.

I really think these guys must just love making whistles, and I doubt many of them are exceptionally well-off from whistle making alone.

Jason

[Sober Sam]

I really think these guys must just love making whistles, and I doubt many of them are exceptionally well-off from whistle making alone.

Jason

Well, I think this is really the point. A lot of us, me included, take some of the high end whistle "brands" out there for granted. But they're not. Most makers do their job because of their love for it. But when one of 'em ever gets in a situation where he really needs cash, he may not be able to afford making whistles anymore.

And about the poll: I already tried to refine it, but apparantly once it's posted and running a poll can't be changed.

[Cayden]

Well, I think this is really the point. A lot of us, me included, take some of the high end whistle "brands" out there for granted. But they're not. Most makers do their job because of their love for it. But when one of 'em ever gets in a situation where he really needs cash, he may not be able to afford making whistles anymore.

Aren't you overstating things a bit ? How many whistle makers are actually in it full time? Very few I would think.

Personally I think quite a few 'high end' whistles are just expensive/over-priced and are overrated quality wise, mind you I didn't say 'all'.


I think for example a Sindt has a realistic price considering time/material and quality. Same for a good unkeyed flute coming in around 750 euro.

Would you e willing to pay 360, 390 or even 450 Euros for a whistle, that is now priced 300 if this would help your favorite whistle maker to stay in business.

I wouldn't be willing to pay €200 for a whistle, any whistle, let alone what you're suggesting.

Yes,cheap. Definitely.