Anyone use a box drum in Irish band?

[Whitmores75087]

Our band uses a Djembe. It establishes the beat better than the flitter-flutter of a bodhran. Question: anyone use a box drum? Seems to me the sound would fit well in "updated" ITM. (I consider the addition of a guitar an "update" to the traditional sound).

[BigDavy]

Hi Whitmores75087

Is this the drum you are talking about.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajon

If so then they work well with tunes in triple time especially muineiras, the djembe would probably suit tunes in duple time better. Maybe you should get your percussionist to play bodhran/djembe/cajon as appropriate, rather than stick to just one drum.

David

[MTGuru]

By box drum do you mean cajón? The Dublin based-group Gráda use a snared cajón to good effect in their live shows, in addition to bodhrán. I believe it's played by Alan Doherty when he's not doing flute/whistle duty. Watching him squat on what looks like a fruit crate and beat the heck out of it is a bit startling at first!

I sometimes wonder how much longer the guitar, after nearly 40 years as a part of ITM, will continue to be singled out by many as a nouveau Irish instrument. But that's a holy war I don't want to start here.

[Mitch]

I tend to believe that a Bodhran played well shouldn't sound remotely "flitter-flutter". Most Djembe stuff I've heard with ITM - the drummers just don't get "IT" and it sounds wrong. Any percussion will work so long as the player has a feel for what they are doing - my personal preference is full drum kit miked and produced.

I also feel that ITM has its own grandure, agression and excitement even before any percussives are added - If the percussionist can key into that then it's just a matter of what tone spectrum is available from the thing he's thumping

[straycat82]

There's a fella that has shown up at our session a few times with a snared cajón. It gives a very 1950's-60's ceilidh band feel to the music. Personally, it wasn't my cup of tea but it didn't sound bad by any means, just not my personal preference for this genre. I can't stand the sound of Dumbek's or Djembe's in Irish music. It just doesn't sit well for me... one of the main reason's why I never thought too much of Gaelic Storm.
I also agree with Mitch about the music not "needing" any sort of percussion instrument at all but a bodhran played correctly (the player having a good appreciation and understanding of the music vs. making with the flitter-flutter) is something that I do like and strive for as a bodhran player.

[sgerards]

The Celtic Nots in Spokane, WA use one. I think they still have a link thru the C&F site

[straycat82]

...so, then, would the plural form of cajón be cajónes?

[MTGuru]

...so, then, would the plural form of cajón be cajónes?

Yes, it would! But change the "a" to "o" and that's ... er ... something else.

[Whitmores75087]

Yes, BigDave, that's the thingee I was talking about. All good comments. Our need for a more clearly audible (almost rock style) beat stems for a certain weakness in our melody player line up.
Good comment about too much 1950's ceili sound. I'm not into that either. I'm thinking that one of these things sans snare might sound good.
Sorry bout the guitar comment. I think it works great with ITM, and I'm very much into keeping the genre alive through fusion of every kind. The purists want to lock into an era, and once it stands still it stops growing and it petrifies. Like happened to "classical" music.

[BigDavy]

Hi Whitmores75087

As a suggestion maybe this type of drum would be more suitable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darabuka



One like this in aluminium with a plastic head is the easiest on the fingers and if you get a reasonably large one, capable of some lovely bass notes. I like using one for fast reels and polkas as they respond well to inticate finger work.

David

[gregoryturner]

I would have to agree with straycat82. I love the sound of the bodhran. My personal favorite player is John Joe Kelly of Flook. I have not listened to alot of others but so far my first Flook cd is my fav cd right now. There is also a really good clip of him playing a bodhran solo on youtube... Fascinating.

[Charlene]

The Celtic Nots in Spokane, WA use one. I think they still have a link thru the C&F site

Here's the link to their main page: http://www.celticnots.com/

Their current percussionist, Jeff McMurtery, is a band teacher for Spokane School District 81. My daughter was in his class when he first joined the Celtic Nots - she was a bit embarassed to see her teacher go from being a teacher in a suit and tie to just a regular person sitting on stage in jeans and a t-shirt beating on a wooden box! One time I referred to him as "Jeff" and my daughter said, "Mom! He's Mr. McMurtery!"

There's a section on the Celtic Nots site where they explain all their instruments.

An Dochas also uses one, although it's usually tucked back under the big drums. Their site is http://www.andochas.com/

[Crysania]

If you have to have a percussion instrument to keep the beat, I worry about the rhythmic capabilities of the band members (really, anyone in ITM should be able to play a tune on their own and keep a steady beat). Bodhran is not a "flitter flutter" instrument and adds nicely to a tune...but it's not used to keep the beat.

~Crysania

[Chiffed]

Hi Whitmores75087

As a suggestion maybe this type of drum would be more suitable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darabuka



One like this in aluminium with a plastic head is the easiest on the fingers and if you get a reasonably large one, capable of some lovely bass notes. I like using one for fast reels and polkas as they respond well to inticate finger work.

David

Go for the one in cast aluminum with the tacky peeling vinyl. Very traditional in Turkey.
Dumbeks / darbukas are great, and I use them often (mostly for keeping unruly djembe and ashiko players in line) but they can be too loud. I keep one of mine tuned as slack as possible, with some strategic use of tape on the inside of the plastic head. This gives me less ring, and more pitch control. Having a bit less volume also helps stay 'inside' with a group. Stock, dumbeks can penetrate light armour.

A deep snare with brushes can sound cool, too.

[BigDavy]

Hi Whitmores75087

As a suggestion maybe this type of drum would be more suitable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darabuka



One like this in aluminium with a plastic head is the easiest on the fingers and if you get a reasonably large one, capable of some lovely bass notes. I like using one for fast reels and polkas as they respond well to inticate finger work.

David

Go for the one in cast aluminum with the tacky peeling vinyl. Very traditional in Turkey.
Dumbeks / darbukas are great, and I use them often (mostly for keeping unruly djembe and ashiko players in line) but they can be too loud. I keep one of mine tuned as slack as possible, with some strategic use of tape on the inside of the plastic head. This gives me less ring, and more pitch control. Having a bit less volume also helps stay 'inside' with a group. Stock, dumbeks can penetrate light armour.

A deep snare with brushes can sound cool, too.

UP and percussion - way to go Chiffed. I have the eponymous Turkish darabuka too.

Maybe one of the larger talking drums would suit too.

David