Octave flattening and mouthpiece design question

[mikey_r]

I tried an experiment yesterday, in which I made a high-D whistle using CPVC tubing for the barrel and a Yamaha plastic soprano recorder mouthpiece. I used the hole placements given by Guido Gonzato for the "low-tech whistle". I drilled the holes small and snuck up on the diameter to bring the whistle into tune. Once I got the lower octave tuned, I started working on the upper octave and discovered that, with this mouthpiece, the octave flattening effect for the second octave was very pronounced - almost a semi-tone. I also found that enlarging the holes enough to bring up the second octave caused the first octave to go very sharp (surprise, surprise).

A couple of observations: The distance from the fipple to the edge of the blade is very short on this mouthpiece - much shorter than on any of the low-end whistles I currently own. The blade angle is very acute and the blade is sharp. Especially in the lower octave, this whistle has a very strong, pure tone - no chiff, no breathiness (that was what I was hoping for). The higher octave, apart from being flat, is very strong up to about high-G. Getting higher notes than high-G is very difficult and takes an enormous amount of air.

I noticed, on a previous whistle making experiment, that increasing the distance between the fipple and the blade edge increased the breathiness, but also brought the two octaves more nearly in tune with one another. My question is, is there a reference that talks about mouthpiece design for whistles? Or more specifically, that addresses windway size, the distance between the fipple and the blade, and the blade angle? Or do most people just approach it by trial and error?

Thanks,

- Mike

[Oreo]

Hi, I'm new at making whistles and have put several posts on the forum recently. It is important to know what key you were trying for. With a soprano recorder head joint, I think you should try for a lower whistle, not a soprano D or C whistle. I highly recommend getting the TWCalc program at JubilieeMusic.com 's sight. Then you can play around with hole placements and keys, putting in your pipe measurements and adjusting a bit for the size of the head joint.

The other thing that I have suggested before (forgive me if it was on one of your threads) is that you just use the whole soprano recorder and make a whistle that has a conical bore. You would need to enlarge the second hole on the right hand, if it is a Baroque recorder, and that is about all. Then you can ignore the thumb hole and use most whistle fingerings until you get to upper A or so.

Oreo Phil

[mikey_r]

Hi, I'm new at making whistles and have put several posts on the forum recently. It is important to know what key you were trying for. With a soprano recorder head joint, I think you should try for a lower whistle, not a soprano D or C whistle. I highly recommend getting the TWCalc program at JubilieeMusic.com 's sight. Then you can play around with hole placements and keys, putting in your pipe measurements and adjusting a bit for the size of the head joint.

The other thing that I have suggested before (forgive me if it was on one of your threads) is that you just use the whole soprano recorder and make a whistle that has a conical bore. You would need to enlarge the second hole on the right hand, if it is a Baroque recorder, and that is about all. Then you can ignore the thumb hole and use most whistle fingerings until you get to upper A or so.

Oreo Phil

Thanks for the response, Phil. I was trying to match the inside diameter of the mouthpiece bore to the tubing, which limited me to 1/2" tubing. I tried longer lengths before drilling anything, and the problem is that the low notes just die in 1/2" tube for anything longer than a soprano pitch. The sound of the lower octave on this high-D experiment was very loud, pure and true. The problem was the intonation between the two octaves - I never heard a worse mismatch.

I have TWCalc, but I don't think the problem was hole placement. I was able to bring the whistle into perfect tune on the lower octave. The initial placements were pretty good, and I just snuck up on the diameter until it was right.

Your suggestion about modifying a recorder is interesting - I may try it with a cheapie. If I were to start with one of the plastic german-fingered ones they sell for under $5, and just enlarge the R2 hole enough to bring the F up to F#, I guess it could be played as a high-D instrument for about 1.5 octaves.

It's funny, but that's where my cylindrical bore experiment also crapped out (besides the intonation problem). I'm still wondering about the mouthpiece design, and wondering if there's something that could be done to help the intonation there. Afterall, there are a bunch of cheap cylindrical whistles on the market, and they make it work somehow.