Serpent versus Burke whistles

dublingirl · Post by **dublingirl** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:44 am

Hi I was looking for some advice please. Which is the better whistle - the Serpent brass whistle or the Burke brass whistle (both in Soprano D).
I'm hoping to buy one soon.
many thanks,
Dublingirl

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:52 am

The 'best' whistle depends on what you want in a whistle.

I've played the Serpent Brass Trio and didnt like it at all. It fell apart without Teflon tape (lots of it). I have also played a Burke, but it was aluminum, not brass so I won't comment there. I suspect, however, that 11 out of 10 people will tell you to go for Burke.

Here is my Serpent review: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=11882

What qualities are you looking for in a whistle?

Have you considered Elfsong?

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:21 am

I'll second the elfsong. I don't have a Burke, never played one, but I do have a couple serpents. The serpent is louder and chiffier, but on the whole I like the elfsong better.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:50 am

I have an early Serpent, and a Burke Al-Pro D.

Both of these are fine whistles, but they are quite different, except for the fact that both will center a digital tuner on nearly every note in a 2-octave scale.

The Serpent is a heavy whistle, and requires careful warming up to play its best. It has a very chiffy sound, and has playing qualities that are belied by its rough and heavy appearance, with a soft tone that sounds almost like a louder Clarke original. There is some air in its tone, and you can put some rasp into it if you lean into it.

The Burke is a light whistle and also will center a digital tuner on nearly every note in a 2-octave scale.

The Burke has a tone that is achingly pure, and smooth as melted better, all the way up into the 3rd octave. It doesn't get shrill, but it does require good breath control and lots of practice to his the lowest couple of notes solidly. They are there, but this whistle requires breath control in a way even the Oak does not. Also this whistle plays best after careful warming, as this helps avoid clogging.

Fact is, both whistles require good breath control, although it different ways, as the Serpent has more resistance and takes more air to jump the octave, and both have some clogging issues if not warmed up before heavy play.

Note: Bill Whedon has redesigned his mouthpieces several times since he made my Serpent whistle. I haven't had a chance to try his new designs yet but I have heard that they are much easier to warm up and play then his original design was. I believe Michael Burke has also redesigned his fipple with his most recent whistles; I haven't had a chance to play one of those yet either.

Best wishes,

--James

dublingirl · Post by **dublingirl** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:15 am

Many thanks for your advice - it looks like the Burke will probably be the best one to suit me!

I'm also wondering if there are any wooden whistles which have a pure tone & require only a little air, especially in the upper register?

Thanks again,
Dublingirl

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:19 am

dublingirl wrote:I'm also wondering if there are any wooden whistles which have a pure tone & require only a little air, especially in the upper register?

From what I remember, a Fred Rose whistle would fulfill those criteria. Perhaps someone who actually owns one can verify that?

claudine · Post by **claudine** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:28 am

I have a Rose whistle. It does have a very pure sound but needs a very precise amount of air pressure in the high register. I think it's a whistle for someone who practices regularly. It's a beautiful instrument.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:59 am

Rose for sure anwers the book.

Now, I don't know is this expresses the same as Claudine, with my more limited skills, but the Rose has me hit the 3rd register (not octave, just the overblown second, starting with A xxx xxx) when I rush and need just the high octave... Well, I keep on practicing, and that 3rd register is handy at time (try it with the f#" a" f#" d" f#" d" a' b' in "Chicken reel")

I don't have experience with the Abell D (just the A and Bb) but I understand it would be the same, though maybe less pure in tone.

Finally, with more limited budget, I would suggest the newer Sweethearts top-end "Professional". At $135, it's really close to the Rose as purity goes, and less demanding (both in breath control and wood maintenance). Underrated brand if there's one IMHO.

Note I never played Busman's or Thin Weasels.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:36 am

This is generally not a question of "which whistle is better" rather what do you want from a whistle and which will better fit your preferences, assuming that durability, quality, tuning and cost even out. I have both a newer model Serpent Viper and the new "black tip" Burke. James is right on in his analysis. I like both, but if I had to pick one, it'd be the Burke, which is even better than prior models which were terrific. Serpent is heavy, cosmetically beautiful, surprisingly but not annoyingly low volume, in tune and chiffy. Burke is a full round strong volume sound with easy playability and transitions; a really wonderful whistle IMO. It has an extended delrin fipple which I also prefer for durability, anti-clogging (yes, it is really a Klingon anti-clogging device which replaced their infamous cloaking device), and comfort of delrin.

Regards,

PhilO

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:49 am

Another way of describing the difference struck me when driving to work this morning:

If you want to sound like Joanie Madden, get the Burke.

If, however, you want to sound like some of the early recordings of Seamus Ennis on whistle, get the Serpent.

--James

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:16 am

peeplj wrote:Another way of describing the difference struck me when driving to work this morning:

If you want to sound like Joanie Madden, get the Burke.

If, however, you want to sound like some of the early recordings of Seamus Ennis on whistle, get the Serpent.

--James

And, if you *do* want to try a Serpent but are a holding off due to the price - try a Polly-Mer.

My Polly-Mer (except for weight, and warm-up time) seems a nearly exact match for the Viper (unsurprising, since Bill says he uses the same design and tooling). But Polly-Mers run a lot cheaper - they're in the same price range as a Dixon tunable.

I love my Polly-Mer (external brass tuning slide version), but it really isn't the whistle to choose if you want "loud and pure". Though still not overwhelmingly loud, I pick up my Oak D when I want something in that direction.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:25 am

Zubivka wrote:Finally, with more limited budget, I would suggest the newer Sweethearts top-end "Professional". At $135, it's really close to the Rose as purity goes, and less demanding (both in breath control and wood maintenance). Underrated brand if there's one IMHO.

And i know somebody who's selling one! wink! wink! say no more!

I agree, it's a good whistle and underrated.

I think the Water Weasel is underrated to. I still think it's one of the best whistles available and competes well with things selling for 5 times that price. The W.W. also would qualify as a "pure sounding" whistle. Serpents, on th'other hand, are breathy sounding but very solidly built things, handy in a fight or to pry stuck windows open.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:57 am

Yes, serpents definitly quailify for the "whupass stick" award.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:22 pm

Cranberry wrote:The 'best' whistle depends on what you want in a whistle.

I've played the Serpent Brass Trio and didnt like it at all. It fell apart without Teflon tape (lots of it). I have also played a Burke, but it was aluminum, not brass so I won't comment there. I suspect, however, that 11 out of 10 people will tell you to go for Burke.

Here is my Serpent review: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=11882

What qualities are you looking for in a whistle?

Have you considered Elfsong?

Cranberry, don't forget that Serpent, is constantly improving his products. You should do a review on one of his current whistles instead of repeating an older review of something revised or possibly discontinued. Who knows, you may be pleasantly suprised.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:43 pm

It's my understanding that Bill (Serpent) discontinued the Brass Trio a year or so ago because he wasn't satisfied with it himself.

Bill has a reputation for standing behind his products. Have you contacted him to see if he can bring it up to date with his current designs?

It's worth mentioning that he has had the courage to go into whistle making full time, so his livelihood is riding on his whistles' reputation. I can't imagine he would be happy to see a negative review posted and then repeated about a whistle that was discontinued long ago and doesn't represent the quality of his present work.

Best wishes,
Jerry

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