What brand of low whistle is this?

[kallikrein]

Hi all,

After I accidentally broke the head of my Dixon low D, I was looking for a new low whistle. I came across this low whistle on an online auction website and was able to procure it for a nice price. It has a very nice mellow sound (not very airy) and it easily jumps between octaves but it's much more stable than the dixon low whistle. The buyer didn't know what brand it was, but I'm curious. So I hope someone can help me out?

[dunnp]

I'm not a low whistle expert, but it looks like and early Cheiftain.

[kallikrein]

That is sort of what I'm hoping! I tried comparing my whistle to online pictures of older Chieftains but as I'm no whistle expert either I'm hoping that someone can confirm it (or maybe it's from another maker). The only marking on the whistle is its key so no clues there...

[Sirchronique]

It is hard to tell, because some knockoff whistles of nearly identical appearance have been sold on eBay in the past. Though, I have heard those play quite poorly. At the end of the day, though, if it is a good whistle the brand doesn't matter.

[greenspiderweb]

It does resemble a Chieftain, but it appears that the beak is too short, for either the OS (old style), or NR (new range) that came a little later. You can see a picture here on Phil's website here, in the post dated 29/04/2007 comparing the two, along with a V3.

http://www.kerrywhistles.com/blog?dir=a ... d_time&p=6

There are other pictures of Chieftains on the web, just do a picture search in Google, and you will see more. If you have the whistle in hand, it might be easier to tell comparing it to others.

There were always knock-offs by other small makers, of popular whistles, so I would not be surprised if it is. The D marking on the bottom is a little different too-and oriented differently as well. And if it really is chrome plated, then think possibly Indian or Pakistani. Phil always used aluminum for his silver colored whistles.

Heh, now I'm not so sure it isn't a Chieftain. Take a look here, and you'll see how short the beak appears in one photo (as it does in yours), but in the other, it looks longer, when the angle of the camera isn't so great:

http://pipersgrip.50webs.com/OS.html

The D mark is still oriented differently, but who knows-that can change over time too from the same maker.

One clue that might make it easier to decide, is to how it plays. If it's a Chieftain, it will most likely have some notable character to the tone; it will be fairly strong, with some wind noise or chiff. I don't think I've played a Chieftain or Kerry whistle that was very clear toned, lacking in character or strength of voice. So that may help you, other than just picture comparisons.

Either way, if you enjoy playing it, and you got it for a good price, then play away, and worry not about its origins, unless you want to sell it of course!

[pancelticpiper]

You all know more about this than I do, but wasn't there a period where you had three makers, Phil Hardy, Colin Goldie, and Bernard Overton all making similar-looking whistles?

Has anyone collected similar Low Ds from all three of those makers and taken group photos of them showing their differences?

I guess I'm not detail-oriented enough, but I've owned three Overton Low Ds over the years and now I own a Goldie Low D and I don't think I would be able to pick out which was which out of a lineup.

[greenspiderweb]

Yes, Bernard, Colin and Phil were making Overtons at one point, but they all had flat ground sides on the head, as opposed to the round profile of the Chieftains, which was his design. Phil stopped making Overtons, and Colin eventually did too, and now his are called Goldie whistles, and Phil; Kerry Pros, for those who don't know.

There are some photos around on the web, and there were slight differences between the 3 makers at times, like longer beaks, and profile curves to the fipple, etc. Not really worth going into, unless you are documenting or trying to identify those differences.

But, Bernard had his own way of making them, as did Colin, and they had different playing characteristics of course, too. Never saw one by Phil-that was too early for me. Then Phil went on with his take on them, the Kerry Pro handmade whistles, and his Chieftain and Kerry lines which were made with more machining, and less hand work. Many more variations there, for sure. Only the Kerry Pro, and Kerry Optima retained the Overton influence in head design, and sound differently from the Overtons as well.

[Mikethebook]

Referring to pancelticpiper's point about Overtons, telling Colin Goldie's whistles apart is not that difficult. Colin himself says on his web-site that:

I have been making Overton whistles since the early 1990s until August 2009, a year after Bernard Overton's death. All Overton whistles I have made, have either my name engraved inside the end of the whistle or would have had CSG stamped before the Overton on my very early instruments (pre 1998).

His whistles are also notable for rounded holes and a sand-blasted tube interior, neither of which were found on Overtons made by Bernard or Phil Hardy. Later whistles had Overton stamped on them but figuring out whether Bernard or Phil made a particular whistle would be difficult to all but the makers themselves.

As Barry pointed out, Overtons and Goldies all have the flat ground sides on the head, as do Phil Hardy's Kerry Pros, whereas Chieftains have a rounded head. The whistle shown here does look like a Chieftain but it has chamfered holes and, in general, Phil has tended to produce whistles with unrounded holes, the main exception until very recently being the Songbird. The holes are quite heavily chamfered and the "D" deeply embossed, which I've been told is indicative of Phil's work, but I've never comes across this attention to the holes on an early Chieftain. Like Barry, I'm left uncertain whether it is a bona fide Chieftain. Why not send the photos to Phil himself? I'm sure he would be more than happy to give his opinion. He's done it for me on a couple of occasions I can think of.

[kallikrein]

Thanks for all the replies! I'll send the photos to mr. Hardy and keep you updated.

[Wanderer]

I once owned an OS chieftain..i agree it looks very similar.

Can you get us a picture of the part of the fipple where the air goes in? My chieftain had a distinct look there, and I wonder if yours does as well.

[kallikrein]

Copied from the e-mail conversation with mr. Hardy:

It is a Chieftain NR original low D. Our whistles have been manufactured by 3 different companies over the last 18 years. The first company to manufacure our whistles was MDR who are now liquidated, they made the first OS ( old style ) Chieftians until around 2000. We them moved to a much more proficient company who re-tooled for us and produced the NR ( new range ) Chieftain, this is the whistle you have. There were on around 1000 of these low Ds made before , sadly, the guys in the company retired so we had to move to our current manufactures. So the whistle is a fantastic low D with a rich tone and great build quality. Es and Ebs were also made in the same fashion.

and regarding the 'finish'

The whistle is not plated but polished to a mirror finish.

When looking more closely it's indeed clear that it's not plated, but the degree of 'polishedness' is certainly much more than on my other Chieftain whistle .

Here's the picture of the fipple:

[Wanderer]

Copied from the e-mail conversation with mr. Hardy:

It is a Chieftain NR original low D. Our whistles have been manufactured by 3 different companies over the last 18 years. The first company to manufacure our whistles was MDR who are now liquidated, they made the first OS ( old style ) Chieftians until around 2000. We them moved to a much more proficient company who re-tooled for us and produced the NR ( new range ) Chieftain, this is the whistle you have. There were on around 1000 of these low Ds made before , sadly, the guys in the company retired so we had to move to our current manufactures. So the whistle is a fantastic low D with a rich tone and great build quality. Es and Ebs were also made in the same fashion.

and regarding the 'finish'

The whistle is not plated but polished to a mirror finish.

When looking more closely it's indeed clear that it's not plated, but the degree of 'polishedness' is certainly much more than on my other Chieftain whistle .

Here's the picture of the fipple:

I'd take Phil's as the last word. Looking at the fipple hole, I'd concur. My OS chieftain looked markedly different at this angle. It looks like a NR whistle before he started buffing the points/edges off the beak part of the mouthpiece.



So you have a rareish, early one of these NR whistles.

[greenspiderweb]

Very interesting! Seems my NR is the 3rd rendition. The beak on mine looks totally different, especially from the end view. The windway on mine is much smaller, and the beak is flattened, and curved, left to right.

No doubt all the variations makes it harder to key in on a model, but thanks to Phil that he explained the transitions of his Chieftains.

Nice to know you have the real deal though too, isn't it?!

[wizzywig]

Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOepJH0azug

wiz